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Samsung’s lawyers demand to see the iPhone 5 and iPad 3

114 points by acrum 15y ago

ChuckMcM 15y ago
I love creativity in a lawyer.
maeon3 15y ago
So Samsung is suing Apple to give them the schematics on their top secret hardware so that Apple won't sue Samsung later for copying their top secret hardware? That's actually pretty funny. A win/win for Samsung. So Apple will probably refuse, then Samsung has an arrow to fire at Apple if they claim Samsung copied their hardware. Some of the lawyers from Samsung have been reading a little too deeply into sun tzu's art of war and Robert Green's 48 laws of power.
- patrickaljord 15y ago
  Apple did force Samsung to give secret future hardware plan so it would only be fair for Apple to do the same http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2385861,00.asp http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2385861,00.asp
  - chicagobob 15y ago
    Read the article. The only items that Apple is asking for is pre-production versions of previously announced products that have pre-production versions that have already been distributed to journalists, etc. Big difference to asking for unannounced and unreleased products. Samsung's lawyers have some mighty big balls to make that kind of a gamble. Frankly, I think it has less than no chance of the Judge granting it.
    - DaveMebs 15y ago
      Why is it a gamble? Worst case scenario Samsung is told no and they are right where they are today. It's not like lawyer fees matter in this kind of case. Both companies make enough money and have enough at stake to not worry about the cost. This seems like a low risk move with potentially large upsides. (Obligatory: IANAL)
      - megablast 15y ago
        They make themselves look silly/incompetent/time wasters in front of the judge. Even if you are not a lawyer, you probably realize you should not piss off a judge.
        Jd 15y ago
        Really? Why? Do judges talk to each other about what companies are time-wasters and base their judgments on related smalltalk? If not (and I assume the answer is no, despite my relative lack of legal knowledge), then what has Samsung or any other company to lose besides a few dollars?
        Steko 15y ago
        Spoilers: it's the same judge.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
tikna 15y ago
Impressed by Samsung's reply. As per my opinion, its completely fair to ask for. I felt however, this post is bit biased towards apple.
- podperson 15y ago
  True, after all look at all the incredibly original products Samsung has released that other companies have slavishly copied.
  - mikemaccana 15y ago
    Yes, I wouldn't be surprised if: - home screen widgets - addressbook/social media integration (so I can see the faces that match all those names) - unlock straight to missed calls and other Android/HTC/Samsung innovations appeared in future versions of the iPhone.
  - chicagobob 15y ago
    Ha Ha Ha ... I love it ... tho based on the replies, it looks like you're missing some smiley faces or sarcasm tags.
headShrinker 15y ago
My brother's first reaction when he saw my galaxy S was 'Wow, they don't even pretend they don't copy Apple anymore.' The phone has an uncanny similar look to the iPhone 3G. I think Apple had a legitimate case and don't understand all the Samsung love here. Apple wanting to see samsung's upcoming model to see if they are again copying, so they can get a jump on the lawsuit? I say 'fair'. Samsung copied the shit out of that phone design, and much of the OS skin. Uncanny resemblance. Samsung, wanting to see Apple's upcoming products? "On what grounds?"
- Peaker 15y ago
  Are external phone designs protected by patents or copyrights?
  - mishmash 15y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent
- cookiecaper 15y ago
  I don't think the phones are that similar. Certainly they're not similar enough to cause confusion for anyone under 40. I have seen the comparison and the Galaxy, while it obviously took some hints from the iPhone (as did all subsequent smartphones), has a distinct feel and shape. I know the difference immediately between and iPhone and a Galaxy.
  - gonzo 15y ago
    > Certainly they're not similar enough to cause confusion for anyone under 40 blow me, hipster scum. :-)
  - danudey 15y ago
    I've seen more than a few people in shops or on transit that were using their iPhones, and it was only when I tried to see (out of curiosity as an app developer) what apps they were using that I noticed they were actually Samsung phones. As someone who's very tuned in to the tech scene, mobile device trends, and the like, as well as a big fan of my iPhone (having owned each one since they came to Canada), the fact that I, from two or three feet away, would completely mistake a Samsung phone for an iPhone means that there's more than just a passing similarity. Beyond that, consumers generally don't understand the differences. They see two smartphones that look pretty much identical (as far as they know), with similar packaging, form factor, and icons, the salesman tells them that they're essentially the same phone, and one of them is cheaper, they might well pick the Samsung phone over the iPhone, despite their intention being to buy an iPhone specifically. Yes, consumers will do this. Apple's concern here, though, may be that people will be confused by the issue, whether they end up buying Apple's products or not.
ggoodale 15y ago
If the final versions aren’t available, Samsung wants “the most current version of each to be produced instead.” Given that Apple hasn't announced an iPad 3 or an iPhone 5, what are the odds they simply ship Samsung's lawyers an iPad 2 and an iPhone 4 and call it good?
- hnsmurf 15y ago
  They look fairly close when viewed head on, but then a lot of phones do. The EVO or just about any Android handset without a keyboard looks like a slightly bigger iPhone from the front. They've got a few more buttons, but other than that it's just a big touchscreen. Turn any of them sideways though and the iPhone still looks better. This picture does a good job of showing that: http://iphonehelp.in/content/uploads/2010/06/iphone-4-vs-galaxy-s.jpg http://iphonehelp.in/content/uploads/2010/06/iphone-4-vs-gal...
  - X-Istence 15y ago
    Compare the front of an iPhone 3G/3GS with the Galaxy S head on. That is an uncanny resemblance.
- roel_v 15y ago
  If they are actually working on the iPad 3 or iPhone 5, it would not be wise to ignore a court order and ship something else.
- rmc 15y ago
  Depends. If Apple announce and start selling a new iPhone in 2 months time that's radically different from the iPhone 4 they give Samsung, then Samsung will sue again. They would have been caught going against judges orders. This would jeopardize their fort case against Samsung and piss off the judge. This is not a clever thing to do for the sake of some pedantic hair splitting.
dhughes 15y ago
You would think Samsung could sue Apple for making a phone that plays music the Samsung SGH-M100 was released seven years before the iPhone. I wanted a Samsung SGH-M100 so bad but there were rumours the battery would vet hot, swell up and possibly explode.
- yardie 15y ago
  I believe that Ericsson and Nokia own a few patents on ringtones. A phone that plays music, like an MP3 player may not be all that patentable, but what counts as a novel idea now is really different than a decade ago.
Ruudjah 15y ago
What a complete nonsense. The industry moves in certain directions, and everyone is inspired by everyone else. Because there is a thriving legal industry, they call iit "stealing ideas" and "copying". There is no such thing as original design, every design is based on previous designs and adds small new things. The only group really benefitting are the lawyers and their surrounding workers. Not our innovating tech industry.
- Steko 15y ago
  Generally most people agree that there is a point at which copying too closely is literally "too close" legally. Some people dispute this, they are not in the majority. Generally people would agree that Apple is entitled to these same protections. Generally people would agree that every other non-kirf vendor differentiates their product quite a bit moreso then Samsung has, at least on certain products. This does not mean Samsung has crossed the line of going too close. It just means they are a lot closer to that line then others.

114 points by acrum 15y ago

I love creativity in a lawyer.

So Samsung is suing Apple to give them the schematics on their top secret hardware so that Apple won't sue Samsung later for copying their top secret hardware? That's actually pretty funny. A win/win for Samsung. So Apple will probably refuse, then Samsung has an arrow to fire at Apple if they claim Samsung copied their hardware. Some of the lawyers from Samsung have been reading a little too deeply into sun tzu's art of war and Robert Green's 48 laws of power.

patrickaljord 15y ago
Apple did force Samsung to give secret future hardware plan so it would only be fair for Apple to do the same http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2385861,00.asp http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2385861,00.asp
- chicagobob 15y ago
  Read the article. The only items that Apple is asking for is pre-production versions of previously announced products that have pre-production versions that have already been distributed to journalists, etc. Big difference to asking for unannounced and unreleased products. Samsung's lawyers have some mighty big balls to make that kind of a gamble. Frankly, I think it has less than no chance of the Judge granting it.
  - DaveMebs 15y ago
    Why is it a gamble? Worst case scenario Samsung is told no and they are right where they are today. It's not like lawyer fees matter in this kind of case. Both companies make enough money and have enough at stake to not worry about the cost. This seems like a low risk move with potentially large upsides. (Obligatory: IANAL)
    - megablast 15y ago
      They make themselves look silly/incompetent/time wasters in front of the judge. Even if you are not a lawyer, you probably realize you should not piss off a judge.
      - Jd 15y ago
        Really? Why? Do judges talk to each other about what companies are time-wasters and base their judgments on related smalltalk? If not (and I assume the answer is no, despite my relative lack of legal knowledge), then what has Samsung or any other company to lose besides a few dollars?
        Steko 15y ago
        Spoilers: it's the same judge.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

tikna 15y ago

Impressed by Samsung's reply. As per my opinion, its completely fair to ask for. I felt however, this post is bit biased towards apple.

podperson 15y ago
True, after all look at all the incredibly original products Samsung has released that other companies have slavishly copied.
- mikemaccana 15y ago
  Yes, I wouldn't be surprised if: - home screen widgets - addressbook/social media integration (so I can see the faces that match all those names) - unlock straight to missed calls and other Android/HTC/Samsung innovations appeared in future versions of the iPhone.
- chicagobob 15y ago
  Ha Ha Ha ... I love it ... tho based on the replies, it looks like you're missing some smiley faces or sarcasm tags.

headShrinker 15y ago

My brother's first reaction when he saw my galaxy S was 'Wow, they don't even pretend they don't copy Apple anymore.' The phone has an uncanny similar look to the iPhone 3G. I think Apple had a legitimate case and don't understand all the Samsung love here. Apple wanting to see samsung's upcoming model to see if they are again copying, so they can get a jump on the lawsuit? I say 'fair'. Samsung copied the shit out of that phone design, and much of the OS skin. Uncanny resemblance. Samsung, wanting to see Apple's upcoming products? "On what grounds?"

Peaker 15y ago
Are external phone designs protected by patents or copyrights?
- mishmash 15y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent
cookiecaper 15y ago
I don't think the phones are that similar. Certainly they're not similar enough to cause confusion for anyone under 40. I have seen the comparison and the Galaxy, while it obviously took some hints from the iPhone (as did all subsequent smartphones), has a distinct feel and shape. I know the difference immediately between and iPhone and a Galaxy.
- gonzo 15y ago
  > Certainly they're not similar enough to cause confusion for anyone under 40 blow me, hipster scum. :-)
- danudey 15y ago
  I've seen more than a few people in shops or on transit that were using their iPhones, and it was only when I tried to see (out of curiosity as an app developer) what apps they were using that I noticed they were actually Samsung phones. As someone who's very tuned in to the tech scene, mobile device trends, and the like, as well as a big fan of my iPhone (having owned each one since they came to Canada), the fact that I, from two or three feet away, would completely mistake a Samsung phone for an iPhone means that there's more than just a passing similarity. Beyond that, consumers generally don't understand the differences. They see two smartphones that look pretty much identical (as far as they know), with similar packaging, form factor, and icons, the salesman tells them that they're essentially the same phone, and one of them is cheaper, they might well pick the Samsung phone over the iPhone, despite their intention being to buy an iPhone specifically. Yes, consumers will do this. Apple's concern here, though, may be that people will be confused by the issue, whether they end up buying Apple's products or not.

ggoodale 15y ago

If the final versions aren’t available, Samsung wants “the most current version of each to be produced instead.” Given that Apple hasn't announced an iPad 3 or an iPhone 5, what are the odds they simply ship Samsung's lawyers an iPad 2 and an iPhone 4 and call it good?

hnsmurf 15y ago
They look fairly close when viewed head on, but then a lot of phones do. The EVO or just about any Android handset without a keyboard looks like a slightly bigger iPhone from the front. They've got a few more buttons, but other than that it's just a big touchscreen. Turn any of them sideways though and the iPhone still looks better. This picture does a good job of showing that: http://iphonehelp.in/content/uploads/2010/06/iphone-4-vs-galaxy-s.jpg http://iphonehelp.in/content/uploads/2010/06/iphone-4-vs-gal...
- X-Istence 15y ago
  Compare the front of an iPhone 3G/3GS with the Galaxy S head on. That is an uncanny resemblance.
roel_v 15y ago
If they are actually working on the iPad 3 or iPhone 5, it would not be wise to ignore a court order and ship something else.
rmc 15y ago
Depends. If Apple announce and start selling a new iPhone in 2 months time that's radically different from the iPhone 4 they give Samsung, then Samsung will sue again. They would have been caught going against judges orders. This would jeopardize their fort case against Samsung and piss off the judge. This is not a clever thing to do for the sake of some pedantic hair splitting.

dhughes 15y ago

You would think Samsung could sue Apple for making a phone that plays music the Samsung SGH-M100 was released seven years before the iPhone. I wanted a Samsung SGH-M100 so bad but there were rumours the battery would vet hot, swell up and possibly explode.

yardie 15y ago
I believe that Ericsson and Nokia own a few patents on ringtones. A phone that plays music, like an MP3 player may not be all that patentable, but what counts as a novel idea now is really different than a decade ago.

Ruudjah 15y ago

What a complete nonsense. The industry moves in certain directions, and everyone is inspired by everyone else. Because there is a thriving legal industry, they call iit "stealing ideas" and "copying". There is no such thing as original design, every design is based on previous designs and adds small new things. The only group really benefitting are the lawyers and their surrounding workers. Not our innovating tech industry.

Steko 15y ago
Generally most people agree that there is a point at which copying too closely is literally "too close" legally. Some people dispute this, they are not in the majority. Generally people would agree that Apple is entitled to these same protections. Generally people would agree that every other non-kirf vendor differentiates their product quite a bit moreso then Samsung has, at least on certain products. This does not mean Samsung has crossed the line of going too close. It just means they are a lot closer to that line then others.