7 ms·

What was bad about it?

by mapmap 6y ago

djrogers 6y ago
Not OP, but 3rd party chargers often: 1) require a new app to be installed 2) require you to create an account and add your credit card info 3) are broken 4) work, but charge slower than they should
- filoleg 6y ago
  While a minor thing, I wanted to add to this, even when everything works properly and on the first try with third party chargers, you gotta pull out your phone and open the app (or use it as an Apple Wallet card, if the charging station supports it) to activate the charger and start the whole charging process. As opposed to superchargers, where you literally just plug the charger in and that's it, everything is handled for you.
- gameswithgo 6y ago
  Who the heck thought an app was a good idea? Complete non starter for me.
  - secabeen 6y ago
    It's twofold. One, they want some way to notify you back when your charge session is nearing completion, or if you get unplugged unexpectedly. Two, they want the data on your usage individually identified, so they can sell/mine it.
    - gameswithgo 6y ago
      Ok that is a good point, optional app integration is sensible.
    - waiseristy 6y ago
      They really should just call your phone, I can't think of a single other long-wait activity that forces you to install spyware. Oil changes, doctor / dentist appointments, furniture delivery, etc. They all just give you a call
      - BoorishBears 6y ago
        Just because you want a call doesn't mean everyone else does. I'd much rather have an app notify me than an automated phone call, I (and most people I know) probably wouldn't even pick it up. - I can uninstall an app, I can't ungive someone my phone number.
        waiseristy 6y ago
        To each their own! I can not stand having random apps installed on my phone. They all eventually turn into notification spamming spyware. I get spam phone calls all the time anyway, have the charging station call / text me and leave me a message instead
      - secabeen 6y ago
        Many people don't want to give their SMS-capable number to a random charging station in another state. I don't mind giving my number to my doctor, but a charging station is a different risk profile.
      - djrogers 6y ago
        Frankly I’d rather install an app on my iPhone than give the company my phone number. At least with an app I can deny location, contacts, and all other access.
        waiseristy 6y ago
        What makes you think that company XYZ will let you use their app if you deny location, contact, etc. access?
        boardwaalk 6y ago
        From a security point of view, that seems insane.
  - jsight 6y ago
    I think they are optional in general, but often more reliable. These locations are unstaffed and often directly exposed to the elements. The cardreaders don't seem to hold up well.
    - Symbiote 6y ago
      They should be able to accept contactless cards only, without a PIN. Plenty of contactless-card vending machines (drinks etc) and ticket machines (train tickets etc) in Asia and Europe cope with the weather.
  - blowfish721 6y ago
    They really should have a card reader option. Personally I don’t mind an app if it was a unified app across all chargers. Having to download a new app, enter card info, personal info etc just to use a charger once while away from your regular area is super annoying.
- kurthr 6y ago
  Yes, unless you're using the newest and rarest non-superchargers, you're looking at 8-14kW vs 50-150kW. Also there are 3 or more different ones (so one app isn't enough) and because they take so long to charge people often park for extended (e.g. 4+ hours) periods. They border on useless, unless they happen to be where you work or live, if what you're looking for is a quick fill-up.
cogman10 6y ago
Here's the tesla experience. Pull into charge, plug in the car, start charging. Here's the competition. Pull into charge, plug in the car, Maybe swipe a credit if you are lucky and start charging. Likely, you need to install a 3rd party app first then you need to feed that app your CC information and then you need to tell that app a station number to activate. You better hope there's good internet because if there's not you might not be able to charge. Further, for stations that do take a credit card or tap and pay. It's like 50/50 on whether or not it will actually go through. Usually it takes a crazy long time to actually validate the card number before charging (Like, I've waited 10 minutes before for a charge to start!).
- slg 6y ago
  Then if and when you finally get through all that, you are likely charging at a much slower speed than a Supercharger. Using a Supercharger is even easier and more seamless than refueling with gas. Other EV chargers are generally much worse than gas. I hope they get there eventually, but right now it is a night and day difference in my experience.
  - cogman10 6y ago
    Agreed. I don't care too much about the charge time or cost myself as even with the hiked rates, charging is generally comparable or cheaper than a gas fill up (which only strikes on road trips for me). What I really care about is how much time I'm interacting with the charge equipment. It sucks to be standing outside in the freezing cold waiting for your card to maybe get accepted only to find out that for some dumb reason the machine decides to decline it (forcing you to use an app which you likely don't have). There's no reason all EV charging can't be a better experience than gas charging. There's already a data line established when you plug in (Both CCS and Chademo have data lines) so it should be beyond trivial for there to be a standard payment scheme (It should have existed from the start).
    - caf 6y ago
      ISO 15518-2 does specify a "Plug and Charge" scheme. Tritium's chargers support this at least.
jmpman 6y ago
Many times the third party chargers are broken, or vandalized. Some have screens which are completely unreadable after a few years in the sun. They’re sited in inconvenient spots, such as mall parking lots, which have nothing open after 9pm. That being said, the Tesla charging network is far from perfect. Check to see how many US National Parks you can practically visit with a Tesla. Carlsbad Caverns? Nope. North Rim of the Grand Canyon? Barely.
- whoisburbansky 6y ago
  Apparently this reddit post from three years ago doesn't think so: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/6oq1wb/an_updated_list_of_us_national_parks_and_whether/ https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/6oq1wb/an_upda.... Looks like only four National Parks aren't (as of three years ago) within round trip distance of a Supercharger, and Carlsbad isn't one of them.
  - gameswithgo 6y ago
    Some of those that are near the mid 250s would be risky, especially as the car is likely to be loaded down with above average mass, maybe some bikes or a roof luggage unit hurting aero. Guess you could drive slow.
    - ghaff 6y ago
      Furthermore, people often don't drive to a national park, drive around a bit, and head back. When I visit Death Valley, I probably drive hundreds of miles within the park.
      - dliff 6y ago
        I was in Death Valley last weekend. Drove there from SF with Model Y, ended up renting an ICE car to explore the park, especially since we were staying 1.5 hours from the center of the park. I saw several Teslas around the park, and I think it's doable if you only want to visit say 1 or 2 locations, but without a Supercharger in the middle of the park, you will be limited and won't have the flexibility to see everything. The resort in the middle of the park has 4 J1772 chargers, which would help if you were staying in the park overnight, but we were simply doing day trips.
pornel 6y ago
Chargers have the same quality and reliability as a free public WiFi. Often broken, slow, difficult to activate, and nobody cares. The market is fragmented. Chargers are run by different companies. Very often you can't even use them, because they don't accept card payments, and expect you to have a membership, or at best use their custom shitty app.

What was bad about it?

by mapmap 6y ago

What was bad about it?

Not OP, but 3rd party chargers often: 1) require a new app to be installed 2) require you to create an account and add your credit card info 3) are broken 4) work, but charge slower than they should

filoleg 6y ago
While a minor thing, I wanted to add to this, even when everything works properly and on the first try with third party chargers, you gotta pull out your phone and open the app (or use it as an Apple Wallet card, if the charging station supports it) to activate the charger and start the whole charging process. As opposed to superchargers, where you literally just plug the charger in and that's it, everything is handled for you.
gameswithgo 6y ago
Who the heck thought an app was a good idea? Complete non starter for me.
- secabeen 6y ago
  It's twofold. One, they want some way to notify you back when your charge session is nearing completion, or if you get unplugged unexpectedly. Two, they want the data on your usage individually identified, so they can sell/mine it.
  - gameswithgo 6y ago
    Ok that is a good point, optional app integration is sensible.
  - waiseristy 6y ago
    They really should just call your phone, I can't think of a single other long-wait activity that forces you to install spyware. Oil changes, doctor / dentist appointments, furniture delivery, etc. They all just give you a call
    - BoorishBears 6y ago
      Just because you want a call doesn't mean everyone else does. I'd much rather have an app notify me than an automated phone call, I (and most people I know) probably wouldn't even pick it up. - I can uninstall an app, I can't ungive someone my phone number.
      - waiseristy 6y ago
        To each their own! I can not stand having random apps installed on my phone. They all eventually turn into notification spamming spyware. I get spam phone calls all the time anyway, have the charging station call / text me and leave me a message instead
    - secabeen 6y ago
      Many people don't want to give their SMS-capable number to a random charging station in another state. I don't mind giving my number to my doctor, but a charging station is a different risk profile.
    - djrogers 6y ago
      Frankly I’d rather install an app on my iPhone than give the company my phone number. At least with an app I can deny location, contacts, and all other access.
      - waiseristy 6y ago
        What makes you think that company XYZ will let you use their app if you deny location, contact, etc. access?
      - boardwaalk 6y ago
        From a security point of view, that seems insane.
- jsight 6y ago
  I think they are optional in general, but often more reliable. These locations are unstaffed and often directly exposed to the elements. The cardreaders don't seem to hold up well.
  - Symbiote 6y ago
    They should be able to accept contactless cards only, without a PIN. Plenty of contactless-card vending machines (drinks etc) and ticket machines (train tickets etc) in Asia and Europe cope with the weather.
- blowfish721 6y ago
  They really should have a card reader option. Personally I don’t mind an app if it was a unified app across all chargers. Having to download a new app, enter card info, personal info etc just to use a charger once while away from your regular area is super annoying.
kurthr 6y ago
Yes, unless you're using the newest and rarest non-superchargers, you're looking at 8-14kW vs 50-150kW. Also there are 3 or more different ones (so one app isn't enough) and because they take so long to charge people often park for extended (e.g. 4+ hours) periods. They border on useless, unless they happen to be where you work or live, if what you're looking for is a quick fill-up.

cogman10 6y ago

Here's the tesla experience. Pull into charge, plug in the car, start charging. Here's the competition. Pull into charge, plug in the car, Maybe swipe a credit if you are lucky and start charging. Likely, you need to install a 3rd party app first then you need to feed that app your CC information and then you need to tell that app a station number to activate. You better hope there's good internet because if there's not you might not be able to charge. Further, for stations that do take a credit card or tap and pay. It's like 50/50 on whether or not it will actually go through. Usually it takes a crazy long time to actually validate the card number before charging (Like, I've waited 10 minutes before for a charge to start!).

slg 6y ago
Then if and when you finally get through all that, you are likely charging at a much slower speed than a Supercharger. Using a Supercharger is even easier and more seamless than refueling with gas. Other EV chargers are generally much worse than gas. I hope they get there eventually, but right now it is a night and day difference in my experience.
- cogman10 6y ago
  Agreed. I don't care too much about the charge time or cost myself as even with the hiked rates, charging is generally comparable or cheaper than a gas fill up (which only strikes on road trips for me). What I really care about is how much time I'm interacting with the charge equipment. It sucks to be standing outside in the freezing cold waiting for your card to maybe get accepted only to find out that for some dumb reason the machine decides to decline it (forcing you to use an app which you likely don't have). There's no reason all EV charging can't be a better experience than gas charging. There's already a data line established when you plug in (Both CCS and Chademo have data lines) so it should be beyond trivial for there to be a standard payment scheme (It should have existed from the start).
  - caf 6y ago
    ISO 15518-2 does specify a "Plug and Charge" scheme. Tritium's chargers support this at least.

jmpman 6y ago

Many times the third party chargers are broken, or vandalized. Some have screens which are completely unreadable after a few years in the sun. They’re sited in inconvenient spots, such as mall parking lots, which have nothing open after 9pm. That being said, the Tesla charging network is far from perfect. Check to see how many US National Parks you can practically visit with a Tesla. Carlsbad Caverns? Nope. North Rim of the Grand Canyon? Barely.

whoisburbansky 6y ago
Apparently this reddit post from three years ago doesn't think so: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/6oq1wb/an_updated_list_of_us_national_parks_and_whether/ https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/6oq1wb/an_upda.... Looks like only four National Parks aren't (as of three years ago) within round trip distance of a Supercharger, and Carlsbad isn't one of them.
- gameswithgo 6y ago
  Some of those that are near the mid 250s would be risky, especially as the car is likely to be loaded down with above average mass, maybe some bikes or a roof luggage unit hurting aero. Guess you could drive slow.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    Furthermore, people often don't drive to a national park, drive around a bit, and head back. When I visit Death Valley, I probably drive hundreds of miles within the park.
    - dliff 6y ago
      I was in Death Valley last weekend. Drove there from SF with Model Y, ended up renting an ICE car to explore the park, especially since we were staying 1.5 hours from the center of the park. I saw several Teslas around the park, and I think it's doable if you only want to visit say 1 or 2 locations, but without a Supercharger in the middle of the park, you will be limited and won't have the flexibility to see everything. The resort in the middle of the park has 4 J1772 chargers, which would help if you were staying in the park overnight, but we were simply doing day trips.

pornel 6y ago

Chargers have the same quality and reliability as a free public WiFi. Often broken, slow, difficult to activate, and nobody cares. The market is fragmented. Chargers are run by different companies. Very often you can't even use them, because they don't accept card payments, and expect you to have a membership, or at best use their custom shitty app.