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According to the Washington Post police shooting database, 19 unarmed black men were shot by police in all of 2019. Not exactly some runaway problem. Meanwhile

According to the Washington Post police shooting database, 19 unarmed black men were shot by police in all of 2019. Not exactly some runaway problem. Meanwhile your government can dictate whether your child can live or die based on their calculated prognosis - and won’t let you leave the country for a second opinion.

mhh__ 6y ago
> According to the Washington Post police shooting database, 19 unarmed black men were shot by police in all of 2019. Not exactly some runaway problem. Ignoring that 2019 seemed to be a low year, that's still more people than were killed by police in the UK in total. > Meanwhile your government can dictate whether your child can live or die based on their calculated prognosis - and won’t let you leave the country for a second opinion. Second opinion from whom? NICE have to balance treatments based on cost-efficiency as well as efficacy, if you want to pay for better treatment they don't stop you because it's not on the NHS. https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/health/nhs-healthcare/nhs-patients-rights/ https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/health/nhs-healthcare/nhs-... If you want a second opinion you have to change GP, which is basically exact what you'd do in the states anyway. Just because you want them to give you an opinion doesn't mean you'll get the one you want. https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/09/new-study-finds-45000-deaths-annually-linked-to-lack-of-health-coverage/ https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/09/new-study-fin... Meanwhile, people die every year in the United States because they have no healthcare at all. A Bit of perspective...
- h_anna_h 6y ago
  > that's still more people than were killed by police in the UK in total. This makes perfect sense, the US has almost 5 times more population than the UK. > If you want a second opinion you have to change GP You can't just change GP, you have to do some bureaucratic BS first afaik. Do you have the option to leave the country in order to get a second opinion from a doctor in the EU?
  - mhh__ 6y ago
    > This makes perfect sense, the US has almost 5 times more population than the UK. 5 (UK Police-induced deaths including Terrorists and the like) times 5 is not 1000. > You can't just change GP, you have to do some bureaucratic BS first afaik. The website I linked says change GP, and it's not that difficult to do in my experience (It's still annoyingly non-automated). > Do you have the option to leave the country in order to get a second opinion from a doctor in the EU? Practically I think it would arguably be malpractice if your GP ignored you if you did of your own accord, but with Brexit I genuinely don't know what the framework is anymore. https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/healthcare-abroad/going-abroad-for-treatment/going-abroad-for-medical-treatment/ https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/healthcare-abroad/going-abr... But contrary to what you seemed to be implying they don't stop you from doing that or paying for it yourself. The NHS is not without flaws, and is arguably (I would certainly argue) empirically worse than other alternatives in Europe, but all this death-panel crap is literally just regurgitated anti-Obamacare talking points from a decade ago with almost no relevance to the ills actually plaguing single-payer healthcare.
    - h_anna_h 6y ago
      > Practically I think it would arguably be malpractice if your GP ignored you if you did of your own accord I do not think that this answers the question. It also does not need to be in the EU. Do I have the option to get a second opinion from a doctor in Brazil or the US or Russia? > But contrary to what you seemed to be implying I never implied that, not sure where you got that from. I find this attack unwarranted.
      - Symbiote 6y ago
        I have never head of Britain preventing people from leaving the country, except for criminals serving their sentence, and (presumably) people awaiting trial. Where does the idea that people are prevented from leaving the country for private healthcare originate? (It would be rare, as there's a good private healthcare system in Britain anyway. The opposite is much more common: the UK is a common choice for private healthcare for rich people in the Middle East.)

mhh__ 6y ago

> According to the Washington Post police shooting database, 19 unarmed black men were shot by police in all of 2019. Not exactly some runaway problem. Ignoring that 2019 seemed to be a low year, that's still more people than were killed by police in the UK in total. > Meanwhile your government can dictate whether your child can live or die based on their calculated prognosis - and won’t let you leave the country for a second opinion. Second opinion from whom? NICE have to balance treatments based on cost-efficiency as well as efficacy, if you want to pay for better treatment they don't stop you because it's not on the NHS. https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/health/nhs-healthcare/nhs-patients-rights/ https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/health/nhs-healthcare/nhs-... If you want a second opinion you have to change GP, which is basically exact what you'd do in the states anyway. Just because you want them to give you an opinion doesn't mean you'll get the one you want. https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/09/new-study-finds-45000-deaths-annually-linked-to-lack-of-health-coverage/ https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/09/new-study-fin... Meanwhile, people die every year in the United States because they have no healthcare at all. A Bit of perspective...

h_anna_h 6y ago
> that's still more people than were killed by police in the UK in total. This makes perfect sense, the US has almost 5 times more population than the UK. > If you want a second opinion you have to change GP You can't just change GP, you have to do some bureaucratic BS first afaik. Do you have the option to leave the country in order to get a second opinion from a doctor in the EU?
- mhh__ 6y ago
  > This makes perfect sense, the US has almost 5 times more population than the UK. 5 (UK Police-induced deaths including Terrorists and the like) times 5 is not 1000. > You can't just change GP, you have to do some bureaucratic BS first afaik. The website I linked says change GP, and it's not that difficult to do in my experience (It's still annoyingly non-automated). > Do you have the option to leave the country in order to get a second opinion from a doctor in the EU? Practically I think it would arguably be malpractice if your GP ignored you if you did of your own accord, but with Brexit I genuinely don't know what the framework is anymore. https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/healthcare-abroad/going-abroad-for-treatment/going-abroad-for-medical-treatment/ https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/healthcare-abroad/going-abr... But contrary to what you seemed to be implying they don't stop you from doing that or paying for it yourself. The NHS is not without flaws, and is arguably (I would certainly argue) empirically worse than other alternatives in Europe, but all this death-panel crap is literally just regurgitated anti-Obamacare talking points from a decade ago with almost no relevance to the ills actually plaguing single-payer healthcare.
  - h_anna_h 6y ago
    > Practically I think it would arguably be malpractice if your GP ignored you if you did of your own accord I do not think that this answers the question. It also does not need to be in the EU. Do I have the option to get a second opinion from a doctor in Brazil or the US or Russia? > But contrary to what you seemed to be implying I never implied that, not sure where you got that from. I find this attack unwarranted.
    - Symbiote 6y ago
      I have never head of Britain preventing people from leaving the country, except for criminals serving their sentence, and (presumably) people awaiting trial. Where does the idea that people are prevented from leaving the country for private healthcare originate? (It would be rare, as there's a good private healthcare system in Britain anyway. The opposite is much more common: the UK is a common choice for private healthcare for rich people in the Middle East.)