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> You earn a billion selling wonderbras and buy one of these - OK. > You build one of this on corruption money while ruling the richest country with the poores

> You earn a billion selling wonderbras and buy one of these - OK. > You build one of this on corruption money while ruling the richest country with the poorest people - not OK. They are two forms of capitalist exploitation. Your framing excuses the ‘business‘ kind, but the underlying exploitative mechanics are really no different. Most global north firms benefit from labor in corporate-bribed and IMF-drained regimes in the global south. Global south citizens are basically locked up in their countries, to be ruthlessly exploited by global north capitalist firms. The capitalist class wins, the working class loses.

missedthecue 6y ago
Saying that selling someone a product they like and want at a reasonable price is just the same as ruthlessly running a dictatorship in a poor third world nation is another level of pretentious privilege. How can even you compare the two in good faith?
- MrRiddle 6y ago
  What if the company used child labor? If even Apple used parts built by children for years, I can only assume companies used it as well. So if that’s the case, is it that different?
seniorivn 6y ago
I don't know about this case but if you sold someone something that he genuinely wanted to buy something you legally own for the price the buyer could compare to alternatives etc there is nothing wrong or unfair about it no matter how much you profit from such a deal
- bergstromm466 6y ago
  > I don't know about this case I understand your confusion. The capitalist class push a different narrative, a narrative which makes others’ exploitation, as well as our own, seem normal - as well as portraying capitalist production as the only viable system of production. If you’re genuinely interested in exploring this from a systemic perspective, I can recommend Zak Cope’s ‘The Wealth of Some Nations’, as well as Vijay Prashad’s recent book ‘Washington Bullets‘, or anything written by him really.
  - asats 6y ago
    Genuinely interested how a sane person can be a communist in the 21st century.
    - jjj123 6y ago
      This was not a productive comment. Those that have different views from yours are not insane. As for how? I am not a communist but I am anti-capitalist because it’s clear to me capitalism is not going to solve the environmental crisis it created.
      - thrwway34 6y ago
        You need to check on how communist regimes were handling their environments.
      - missedthecue 6y ago
        How does capitalism cause environmental damage any more than alternate systems, say communism, anarchism, or feudalism? Neither of those systems have avoided environmental damage where they've been implemented. The common denominator is humans.
        jjj123 6y ago
        There are a few reasons I think this. Endless growth and short term profit are two hallmarks of capitalism. They also lead to exploiting natural resources past the point of no return. I think there’s definitely potential for harmful growth + short term thinking in socialist countries as well, especially when you factor in international competition. But I think it could only be better than what we’re doing now. Imo the biggest differentiator between a more capitalist society and a more democratic socialist society is who has power. In the US, it’s people and corporations with lots of money. And guess what! People and corporations with lots of money are incentivized to accelerate climate disaster if it means boosting their short term wealth. In (ideal — I know it’s not going to work out 100% this way) democratic socialism, everyone has equal power. This will necessarily lead to a less exploitative relationship to our planet. You can see an example of capitalist vs demsoc power dynamics in the green new deal. A majority of registered voters across parties support the GND [1]. So in a demsoc society with the same level of support, the GND would be made into law. But there’s a slim chance it’ll come to fruition in the US. Why? Because the people in power have a vested interest in not losing money, and any worthwhile GND is going to cost the rich a _lot_ of money. [1] https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/421765-poll-majorities-of-both-parties-support-green-new-deal https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/421765-poll-ma...
WannaFly 6y ago
economy is non zero sum game.
jojobas 6y ago
Bullshit. Nobody can force me into buying wonderbras. Sure, immense wealth translates into power, monopolies suck and antitrust regulations are the for a reason. Still it's a far cry from running an oil state and killing adversaries.
- bergstromm466 6y ago
  > Still it's a far cry from running an oil state and killing adversaries. Because Amerika doesn’t do exactly that, right?

missedthecue 6y ago

Saying that selling someone a product they like and want at a reasonable price is just the same as ruthlessly running a dictatorship in a poor third world nation is another level of pretentious privilege. How can even you compare the two in good faith?

MrRiddle 6y ago
What if the company used child labor? If even Apple used parts built by children for years, I can only assume companies used it as well. So if that’s the case, is it that different?

seniorivn 6y ago

I don't know about this case but if you sold someone something that he genuinely wanted to buy something you legally own for the price the buyer could compare to alternatives etc there is nothing wrong or unfair about it no matter how much you profit from such a deal

bergstromm466 6y ago
> I don't know about this case I understand your confusion. The capitalist class push a different narrative, a narrative which makes others’ exploitation, as well as our own, seem normal - as well as portraying capitalist production as the only viable system of production. If you’re genuinely interested in exploring this from a systemic perspective, I can recommend Zak Cope’s ‘The Wealth of Some Nations’, as well as Vijay Prashad’s recent book ‘Washington Bullets‘, or anything written by him really.
- asats 6y ago
  Genuinely interested how a sane person can be a communist in the 21st century.
  - jjj123 6y ago
    This was not a productive comment. Those that have different views from yours are not insane. As for how? I am not a communist but I am anti-capitalist because it’s clear to me capitalism is not going to solve the environmental crisis it created.
    - thrwway34 6y ago
      You need to check on how communist regimes were handling their environments.
    - missedthecue 6y ago
      How does capitalism cause environmental damage any more than alternate systems, say communism, anarchism, or feudalism? Neither of those systems have avoided environmental damage where they've been implemented. The common denominator is humans.
      - jjj123 6y ago
        There are a few reasons I think this. Endless growth and short term profit are two hallmarks of capitalism. They also lead to exploiting natural resources past the point of no return. I think there’s definitely potential for harmful growth + short term thinking in socialist countries as well, especially when you factor in international competition. But I think it could only be better than what we’re doing now. Imo the biggest differentiator between a more capitalist society and a more democratic socialist society is who has power. In the US, it’s people and corporations with lots of money. And guess what! People and corporations with lots of money are incentivized to accelerate climate disaster if it means boosting their short term wealth. In (ideal — I know it’s not going to work out 100% this way) democratic socialism, everyone has equal power. This will necessarily lead to a less exploitative relationship to our planet. You can see an example of capitalist vs demsoc power dynamics in the green new deal. A majority of registered voters across parties support the GND [1]. So in a demsoc society with the same level of support, the GND would be made into law. But there’s a slim chance it’ll come to fruition in the US. Why? Because the people in power have a vested interest in not losing money, and any worthwhile GND is going to cost the rich a _lot_ of money. [1] https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/421765-poll-majorities-of-both-parties-support-green-new-deal https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/421765-poll-ma...

WannaFly 6y ago

economy is non zero sum game.

jojobas 6y ago

Bullshit. Nobody can force me into buying wonderbras. Sure, immense wealth translates into power, monopolies suck and antitrust regulations are the for a reason. Still it's a far cry from running an oil state and killing adversaries.

bergstromm466 6y ago
> Still it's a far cry from running an oil state and killing adversaries. Because Amerika doesn’t do exactly that, right?