5 ms·

Still no Node or npm compatibility? Not even on their roadmap? Still think Deno is DOA, then. TypeScript is great, sure. I love TypeScript. But I wouldn't touc

Still no Node or npm compatibility? Not even on their roadmap? Still think Deno is DOA, then. TypeScript is great, sure. I love TypeScript. But I wouldn't touch Deno for just about any serious development if I couldn't be certain that I could search npm for a library and use it without a potential hassle.

postalrat 6y ago
What do you need npm for when you can just import modules from skypack or some other cdn?
- Uehreka 6y ago
  Even if you don’t use the npm CLI per se, the npm ecosystem is huge. Losing access to that is a really big deal.
  - girvo 6y ago
    Most of it isn’t Typescript though.
    - the_gipsy 6y ago
      And even what's typescript is only usable as javascript+.d.ts. Each package has it's own tsconfig.
- christiansakai 6y ago
  How does skypack work? Does it have automatically what npm has?
aktuel 6y ago
It's like wanting to convert a Tesla into a hybrid. Replacing npm with url imports was one of the main motivations to create deno. I don't miss npm at all. I am happy that I don't have to deal with it anymore. But if you want npm you can just continue using node.
- jayflux 6y ago
  What issues were npm giving you?
  - aktuel 6y ago
    Most of the issues are just stemming from its centralized nature. Typo squatting for example and other security issues. Beyond that the whole ecosystem around npm is just so bloated. The amount of data you have to pull for any tiny project is ridiculous. Granted some of those issues is just down to growth of the ecosystem, so it could happen to deno as well. But my hope is that deno community will not repeat most of past mistakes. And it's decentralized nature will help with that.
  - thinkloop 6y ago
    Npm is great, but it's not ideal to structurally depend on a centralized service for normal functioning.
tehbeard 6y ago
So it's doa because it shedded some fairly major legacy tech debt in npm and the commonJS format? While I have concerns about the dependency management style of deno being looser than node's package.json, I do think it is a net positive with realigning to "web standard library" over reinventing interfaces for everything.
austincheney 6y ago
This is the greatest reason to switch to Deno. NPM is, in most cases, a dumpster fire. If you need 1000+ dependencies to write a couple lines of code you have failed and I want nothing to do with you, your team, or any of your code.
- greggman3 6y ago
  If Deno succeeds it will be no different.
  - akdor1154 6y ago
    Not so sure of that - if only because it aims to have a pretty reasonable stdlib built-in.
peteretep 6y ago
> Still think Deno is DOA, then Never has there been a community as obsessed with the new hotness as the JS one. People will use it just so they can say they do
- jmull 6y ago
  That can’t keep a project alive. Next year something else is the new hotness and the people who like that move on.
listless 6y ago
There is a compatibility library https://deno.land/std@0.83.0/node https://deno.land/std@0.83.0/node. But they're at about 10 out of 35 for the Node Standard Lib. And There is no way to handle Node libs that use node-gyp - although I don't think that's _most_ modules. If they finish the compatibility layer, I think that's enough for most scenarios.
pantelisk 6y ago
No NPM support is by far the best thing about Deno for me.
mathiasrw 6y ago
You can use all of npm in deno if you link to them via www.skypack.dev

postalrat 6y ago

What do you need npm for when you can just import modules from skypack or some other cdn?

Uehreka 6y ago
Even if you don’t use the npm CLI per se, the npm ecosystem is huge. Losing access to that is a really big deal.
- girvo 6y ago
  Most of it isn’t Typescript though.
  - the_gipsy 6y ago
    And even what's typescript is only usable as javascript+.d.ts. Each package has it's own tsconfig.
christiansakai 6y ago
How does skypack work? Does it have automatically what npm has?

aktuel 6y ago

It's like wanting to convert a Tesla into a hybrid. Replacing npm with url imports was one of the main motivations to create deno. I don't miss npm at all. I am happy that I don't have to deal with it anymore. But if you want npm you can just continue using node.

jayflux 6y ago
What issues were npm giving you?
- aktuel 6y ago
  Most of the issues are just stemming from its centralized nature. Typo squatting for example and other security issues. Beyond that the whole ecosystem around npm is just so bloated. The amount of data you have to pull for any tiny project is ridiculous. Granted some of those issues is just down to growth of the ecosystem, so it could happen to deno as well. But my hope is that deno community will not repeat most of past mistakes. And it's decentralized nature will help with that.
- thinkloop 6y ago
  Npm is great, but it's not ideal to structurally depend on a centralized service for normal functioning.

tehbeard 6y ago

So it's doa because it shedded some fairly major legacy tech debt in npm and the commonJS format? While I have concerns about the dependency management style of deno being looser than node's package.json, I do think it is a net positive with realigning to "web standard library" over reinventing interfaces for everything.

austincheney 6y ago

This is the greatest reason to switch to Deno. NPM is, in most cases, a dumpster fire. If you need 1000+ dependencies to write a couple lines of code you have failed and I want nothing to do with you, your team, or any of your code.

greggman3 6y ago
If Deno succeeds it will be no different.
- akdor1154 6y ago
  Not so sure of that - if only because it aims to have a pretty reasonable stdlib built-in.

peteretep 6y ago

> Still think Deno is DOA, then Never has there been a community as obsessed with the new hotness as the JS one. People will use it just so they can say they do

jmull 6y ago
That can’t keep a project alive. Next year something else is the new hotness and the people who like that move on.

listless 6y ago

There is a compatibility library https://deno.land/std@0.83.0/node https://deno.land/std@0.83.0/node. But they're at about 10 out of 35 for the Node Standard Lib. And There is no way to handle Node libs that use node-gyp - although I don't think that's _most_ modules. If they finish the compatibility layer, I think that's enough for most scenarios.

pantelisk 6y ago

No NPM support is by far the best thing about Deno for me.

mathiasrw 6y ago

You can use all of npm in deno if you link to them via www.skypack.dev