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> They got fat on hosted server revenue and never iterated. Both of them had years (decade?) on discord and never thought to make their product free, web based

> They got fat on hosted server revenue and never iterated. Both of them had years (decade?) on discord and never thought to make their product free, web based or have a better chat. > Also, apologies for not really commenting on the subject at hand (TS supporting matrix) As a former developer of a chat app that used Matrix, I'm actually thinking that this is a good direction for Teamspeak and has the potential to make it a viable alternative to Discord. Matrix has some decentralization that should allow for censorship-resistant use cases. And this is of course something the world badly needs right now.

baby 6y ago
> Matrix has some decentralization that should allow for censorship-resistant use cases. As an ex-heavy user of teamspeak I can tell you that nobody cared about that.
- wink 6y ago
  Yes, I think I joined a TS server twice in my life when it wasn't part of a guild or clan or something for online gaming. So it 100% did what it should do. These days most people seem to use Discord which also works fine for up to 30 people (didn't try more) or Mumble (works fine for hundreds), in my filter bubble
- Fnoord 6y ago
  It matters. In some parts of competitive gaming scene, Teamspeak requires a VPN because of DDoS attacks. Discord doesn't suffer from this, neither does Matrix.
  - baby 6y ago
    How so? That seems like an extraordinary claim.
    - Fnoord 6y ago
      There is nothing extraordinary about this claim. Without using a VPN you can get DDoSed. A DDoS is very cheap and easy. This happens in competitive gaming. Had it happen to myself and peers multiple times. Also, your voice server can get DDoSed as well. Seen that occur as well.
      - gsich 6y ago
        You can get DDOSed with and without a VPN. Your IP does not change. You probably leak your IP somewhere and people then DDOS that.
        Fnoord 6y ago
        > You probably leak your IP somewhere I probably leaked my home address somewhere as well. Doesn't mean you got it. Which is why you do use the VPN for gaming-related purposes such as a voice chat service, while when you visit Hacker News a VPN isn't necessary. VPNs work adequately for this purpose. They work terrific to avoid civil lawsuits as well. What they're terrible for is avoiding law enforcement. But that isn't what we're discussing here.
        gsich 6y ago
        >Which is why you do use the VPN for gaming-related purposes such as a voice chat service, while when you visit Hacker News a VPN isn't necessary. No you usually don't. Games and voice chat don't usually leak your IP to someone else. P2P in games is very rare, as is voice chat. Discord/Mumble/Teamspeak don't reveal your IP to a random user. Now if you join a Mumble/Teamspeak server, the admin can of course see your IP. But if you get ddosed right after you join such a server ... you know who is responsible. >VPNs work adequately for this purpose. They work terrific to avoid civil lawsuits as well. What they're terrible for is avoiding law enforcement. But that isn't what we're discussing here. True
        Fnoord 6y ago
        You're talking about casual gaming on public Team Speak / Ventrilo servers. I'm talking about gaming where the voice chat server is owned or administrated by a clan/group/guild/team (or whatever nomenclature). If you're half serious gaming, you don't use public servers. Their reliability is comparable to Discord, minus the profiling.
  - gsich 6y ago
    Instead Discord goes down globally if Cloudflare has a problem, which already happened multiple times.
    - Fnoord 6y ago
      If Cloudflare have problems, so does a large part of WWW.
      - gsich 6y ago
        Not Teamspeak (or Mumble) servers.
        Fnoord 6y ago
        Much more susceptible to DDoS than Cloudflare.
        gsich 6y ago
        You can just chose another server. Can't do with Cloudflare (or Discord).
        Nuzzerino 6y ago
        Discord "server" admins can set a different region for their server to work around some types of outages. I've had to do this once.
        Fnoord 6y ago
        I am not talking about public servers. If your team/clan's voice server is being DDoSed. Bonus points if a member hosts the Mumble or TS server.
        gsich 6y ago
        There is not much difference. If your team's voice server is getting ddosed (for whatever reason), there are lots of public servers that allow channel creation.
- Nuzzerino 6y ago
  What year was this? Nobody cared about censorship when Teamspeak was in its prime. Many definitely do now.

baby 6y ago

> Matrix has some decentralization that should allow for censorship-resistant use cases. As an ex-heavy user of teamspeak I can tell you that nobody cared about that.

wink 6y ago
Yes, I think I joined a TS server twice in my life when it wasn't part of a guild or clan or something for online gaming. So it 100% did what it should do. These days most people seem to use Discord which also works fine for up to 30 people (didn't try more) or Mumble (works fine for hundreds), in my filter bubble
Fnoord 6y ago
It matters. In some parts of competitive gaming scene, Teamspeak requires a VPN because of DDoS attacks. Discord doesn't suffer from this, neither does Matrix.
- baby 6y ago
  How so? That seems like an extraordinary claim.
  - Fnoord 6y ago
    There is nothing extraordinary about this claim. Without using a VPN you can get DDoSed. A DDoS is very cheap and easy. This happens in competitive gaming. Had it happen to myself and peers multiple times. Also, your voice server can get DDoSed as well. Seen that occur as well.
    - gsich 6y ago
      You can get DDOSed with and without a VPN. Your IP does not change. You probably leak your IP somewhere and people then DDOS that.
      - Fnoord 6y ago
        > You probably leak your IP somewhere I probably leaked my home address somewhere as well. Doesn't mean you got it. Which is why you do use the VPN for gaming-related purposes such as a voice chat service, while when you visit Hacker News a VPN isn't necessary. VPNs work adequately for this purpose. They work terrific to avoid civil lawsuits as well. What they're terrible for is avoiding law enforcement. But that isn't what we're discussing here.
        gsich 6y ago
        >Which is why you do use the VPN for gaming-related purposes such as a voice chat service, while when you visit Hacker News a VPN isn't necessary. No you usually don't. Games and voice chat don't usually leak your IP to someone else. P2P in games is very rare, as is voice chat. Discord/Mumble/Teamspeak don't reveal your IP to a random user. Now if you join a Mumble/Teamspeak server, the admin can of course see your IP. But if you get ddosed right after you join such a server ... you know who is responsible. >VPNs work adequately for this purpose. They work terrific to avoid civil lawsuits as well. What they're terrible for is avoiding law enforcement. But that isn't what we're discussing here. True
        Fnoord 6y ago
        You're talking about casual gaming on public Team Speak / Ventrilo servers. I'm talking about gaming where the voice chat server is owned or administrated by a clan/group/guild/team (or whatever nomenclature). If you're half serious gaming, you don't use public servers. Their reliability is comparable to Discord, minus the profiling.
- gsich 6y ago
  Instead Discord goes down globally if Cloudflare has a problem, which already happened multiple times.
  - Fnoord 6y ago
    If Cloudflare have problems, so does a large part of WWW.
    - gsich 6y ago
      Not Teamspeak (or Mumble) servers.
      - Fnoord 6y ago
        Much more susceptible to DDoS than Cloudflare.
        gsich 6y ago
        You can just chose another server. Can't do with Cloudflare (or Discord).
        Nuzzerino 6y ago
        Discord "server" admins can set a different region for their server to work around some types of outages. I've had to do this once.
        Fnoord 6y ago
        I am not talking about public servers. If your team/clan's voice server is being DDoSed. Bonus points if a member hosts the Mumble or TS server.
        gsich 6y ago
        There is not much difference. If your team's voice server is getting ddosed (for whatever reason), there are lots of public servers that allow channel creation.
Nuzzerino 6y ago
What year was this? Nobody cared about censorship when Teamspeak was in its prime. Many definitely do now.