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"This computer is my property, I should be able to run whatever programs I want on it." This was the hacker ethos from the 90s. Where did that go?

aftbit 6y ago
Not sure why this was dead, or why Apple seems to get a pass on this walled-garden behavior. If Microsoft were to require Windows apps to be installed from the store, people would be outraged. When it's done on mobile (how the majority of the world accesses computing these days), it's seen as a valid "security measure".
- grzm 6y ago
  > "Not sure why this was dead" Looking at their other posts, likely because the user was banned.
- pldr2244 6y ago
  As an apple user who enjoys the security and perf guarantees Apple gives via its walled-garden - I give a hearty “go build your own phone” to you :)
- Prcmaker 6y ago
  Windows 10S exists now and to a significant extent, is exactly that.
  - squaresmile 6y ago
    I don't think that's a fair comparison. You can switch from 10S to normal mode in a few buttons. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/switching-out-of-s-mode-in-windows-10-4f56d9be-99ec-6983-119f-031bfb28a307 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/switching-out-of...
    - Prcmaker 6y ago
      Well there you go, thank you, I appreciate it.
- tedjdziuba 6y ago
  We used to have contempt for the concept of "forbidden software", and I hope some of us still do. Techno-libertarian culture used to be so defiant, but today, many of the same people have gone soft, and it's not clear why. I remember having a DeCSS t-shirt and the PGP source code printed in a book. Are folks less interested in liberty now that wrong-think can get you fired?
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  Apple doesn't require apps be installed from the Mac App Store. If they did, people would be outraged. People have different expectations from smartphones (tables, and Chromebooks as well). So long as you know what you are getting when you buy it, this isn't an issue.
ogre_codes 6y ago
Its pretty simple. Most users aren't hackers. Apple doesn't make phones to be hacked or tweaked or whatever, they make them to be simple to use and as secure as possible. For most people, this is far more interesting and appealing than being able to side load apps. Isn't the Pine Phone fundamentally a device made for hackers? Fundamentally, the market for hacker oriented products is far smaller and less interesting than the market for iPhones. So hacker oriented tech is by nature going to lag the market or be more expensive.
Bud 6y ago
It didn't go anywhere. Even in the 90s, there were all kinds of devices on which you were completely unable to run your own software. There still are. Nothing has fundamentally changed.
zepto 6y ago
It didn’t go anywhere. PCs, Macs, and Android phones still work that way. There is also an option for people who want a curated environment.

aftbit 6y ago

Not sure why this was dead, or why Apple seems to get a pass on this walled-garden behavior. If Microsoft were to require Windows apps to be installed from the store, people would be outraged. When it's done on mobile (how the majority of the world accesses computing these days), it's seen as a valid "security measure".

grzm 6y ago
> "Not sure why this was dead" Looking at their other posts, likely because the user was banned.
pldr2244 6y ago
As an apple user who enjoys the security and perf guarantees Apple gives via its walled-garden - I give a hearty “go build your own phone” to you :)
Prcmaker 6y ago
Windows 10S exists now and to a significant extent, is exactly that.
- squaresmile 6y ago
  I don't think that's a fair comparison. You can switch from 10S to normal mode in a few buttons. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/switching-out-of-s-mode-in-windows-10-4f56d9be-99ec-6983-119f-031bfb28a307 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/switching-out-of...
  - Prcmaker 6y ago
    Well there you go, thank you, I appreciate it.
tedjdziuba 6y ago
We used to have contempt for the concept of "forbidden software", and I hope some of us still do. Techno-libertarian culture used to be so defiant, but today, many of the same people have gone soft, and it's not clear why. I remember having a DeCSS t-shirt and the PGP source code printed in a book. Are folks less interested in liberty now that wrong-think can get you fired?
ogre_codes 6y ago
Apple doesn't require apps be installed from the Mac App Store. If they did, people would be outraged. People have different expectations from smartphones (tables, and Chromebooks as well). So long as you know what you are getting when you buy it, this isn't an issue.

ogre_codes 6y ago

Its pretty simple. Most users aren't hackers. Apple doesn't make phones to be hacked or tweaked or whatever, they make them to be simple to use and as secure as possible. For most people, this is far more interesting and appealing than being able to side load apps. Isn't the Pine Phone fundamentally a device made for hackers? Fundamentally, the market for hacker oriented products is far smaller and less interesting than the market for iPhones. So hacker oriented tech is by nature going to lag the market or be more expensive.

Bud 6y ago

It didn't go anywhere. Even in the 90s, there were all kinds of devices on which you were completely unable to run your own software. There still are. Nothing has fundamentally changed.

zepto 6y ago

It didn’t go anywhere. PCs, Macs, and Android phones still work that way. There is also an option for people who want a curated environment.