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Found the manager. This is just more developer hate drivel. Yes, if you think managers are more valuable, then obviously you are going to say engineering work

Found the manager. This is just more developer hate drivel. Yes, if you think managers are more valuable, then obviously you are going to say engineering work is "incredibly limited" and manager activities are "orders of magnitude more impactful" Listen, no amount of ass kissing and brown nosing is going to solve actual tech problems.

macintux 6y ago
This tone is unwelcome on HN, which is probably why your previous comments have often been downvoted and flagged.
- one2know 6y ago
  Bashing and shit talking software engineering profession is welcome on HN?
  - macintux 6y ago
    Let me paraphrase the original comment to make my next question easier to answer: Effective software engineering in a business context requires awareness of business needs. Which part of that is “bashing and shit talking”?
    - mcguire 6y ago
      How about, Effective software engineering in a business context requires awareness of business needs as well as the technical skills to address those needs.
      - xyzelement 6y ago
        Nobody would argue with this.
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usefulcat 6y ago
It sounds like you're making assumptions in bad faith. I'm a SWE (i.e., not a manager) and I didn't read the comment at all like you did. On the contrary, I quite agree with it.
- one2know 6y ago
  Well, as someone who has saved my company's ass multiple times to the tune of millions of dollars I think technical solutions are orders of magnitude more impactful and foofoo talk bullshit is incredibly limited. So I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Maybe noob coders "produce a day's worth of code" and that's all they can do, that's your perspective. I've sat through dumb two hour meetings about deciding which words in a document should be capitalized. Is that what is meant by "make sure your team/business is doing the right things?"
  - steve_adams_86 6y ago
    I think what you're missing here is that the original comment isn't suggesting code doesn't solve problems when it counts. The thing is, developers often code things they never needed to. Or they code things off spec. Or they code things outside of the convention of what's appropriate for their immediate team or long-term needs of the product. The list goes on. Output could seem good for a long time before it becomes problematic, then the pure coder simply codes more to solve those problems. This is very circular and makes up a lot of work done by software developers in my experience. I agree with what you're saying in part. Pure coding skills are essential, especially in critical situations like that. Soft skills won't fix broken things, for example. Salespeople can't deliver the features they promise without someone to develop them. However, soft skills can help someone with excellent coding skills to know what to apply their skills to and when, and how to integrate their skills within a broad team of different disciplines. This is arguably true in any field; I think it's often missed in software development because people have such a difficult time distinguishing boundaries of things. The problems you're solving, when you're passively or actively solving problems, when output is applicable to a specific problem, etc. Even software engineers themselves struggle with this. Your ability to save your company's ass is an excellent skill to have, but it isn't directly related or exclusive to what the original comment was saying.

macintux 6y ago

This tone is unwelcome on HN, which is probably why your previous comments have often been downvoted and flagged.

one2know 6y ago
Bashing and shit talking software engineering profession is welcome on HN?
- macintux 6y ago
  Let me paraphrase the original comment to make my next question easier to answer: Effective software engineering in a business context requires awareness of business needs. Which part of that is “bashing and shit talking”?
  - mcguire 6y ago
    How about, Effective software engineering in a business context requires awareness of business needs as well as the technical skills to address those needs.
    - xyzelement 6y ago
      Nobody would argue with this.

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usefulcat 6y ago

It sounds like you're making assumptions in bad faith. I'm a SWE (i.e., not a manager) and I didn't read the comment at all like you did. On the contrary, I quite agree with it.

one2know 6y ago
Well, as someone who has saved my company's ass multiple times to the tune of millions of dollars I think technical solutions are orders of magnitude more impactful and foofoo talk bullshit is incredibly limited. So I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Maybe noob coders "produce a day's worth of code" and that's all they can do, that's your perspective. I've sat through dumb two hour meetings about deciding which words in a document should be capitalized. Is that what is meant by "make sure your team/business is doing the right things?"
- steve_adams_86 6y ago
  I think what you're missing here is that the original comment isn't suggesting code doesn't solve problems when it counts. The thing is, developers often code things they never needed to. Or they code things off spec. Or they code things outside of the convention of what's appropriate for their immediate team or long-term needs of the product. The list goes on. Output could seem good for a long time before it becomes problematic, then the pure coder simply codes more to solve those problems. This is very circular and makes up a lot of work done by software developers in my experience. I agree with what you're saying in part. Pure coding skills are essential, especially in critical situations like that. Soft skills won't fix broken things, for example. Salespeople can't deliver the features they promise without someone to develop them. However, soft skills can help someone with excellent coding skills to know what to apply their skills to and when, and how to integrate their skills within a broad team of different disciplines. This is arguably true in any field; I think it's often missed in software development because people have such a difficult time distinguishing boundaries of things. The problems you're solving, when you're passively or actively solving problems, when output is applicable to a specific problem, etc. Even software engineers themselves struggle with this. Your ability to save your company's ass is an excellent skill to have, but it isn't directly related or exclusive to what the original comment was saying.