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> But on the flip side, I've observed a lot of restaurant owners not having the time, energy, or know-how to set up even basic online things that could really b

> But on the flip side, I've observed a lot of restaurant owners not having the time, energy, or know-how to set up even basic online things that could really boost their business. Isn't part of being a successful business knowing where to put your energy as a business owner? You're saying that restaurants don't necessarily have the ability to make the best decisions for their business, therefore they should be able to opt-out and not opt-in. The flip side of this argument is that these apps can cause undeserved damage to a restaurant's reputation. How do you know what's best for restaurants? You're arguing that the onus should be on the restaurant to opt out whenever a delivery platform causes problems, but the onus should be on the delivery platforms to create a product that restaurants, not just consumers, want to use.

_huayra_ 6y ago
This is already the case with bigger companies. As is the usual case with a lot "disruptive" firms, that "growth hacking" comes from exploiting some regulatory loophole that no one else has seen yet (e.g. most things related to the "sharing economy"). I'm pretty sure if I just declared myself to be a sales partner (idk the term?) of Cisco, IBM, Oracle, etc and just resold their gear, I'd be in hot water legally because my actions would reflect on them.
- nradov 6y ago
  There is nothing illegal about purchasing hardware products from those companies and then selling them on to other customers, even without a formal sales agreement in place. This is the first sale doctrine. However software is different and licenses can't necessarily be resold.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    And, of course, many hardware products do have software components these days. But, yes, in general you can resell hardware without a formal agreement. You just can't claim to be an authorized partner or reseller given that implies certain training levels, etc.
- jldugger 6y ago
  >I'm pretty sure if I just declared myself to be a sales partner (idk the term?) of Cisco, IBM, Oracle, etc and just resold their gear, I'd be in hot water legally because my actions would reflect on them. This is pretty much how local governments buy IT gear. Put out a "I want a router" low volume RFP that the tech companies don't want to bother with, and some local vendor will resell to you. Ideally, they're getting a volume discount and sharing some of it with you at least.
  - _huayra_ 6y ago
    But don't those vendors have to have some sales agreement with Cisco? I'm guessing they don't after reading about it a bit more, but I'm just surprised.
    - user5994461 6y ago
      Yes they do. They have a special website and phone line to order goods at a discount (in volume) and to get direct support/return. Cisco/HP/Oracle/VmWare/Microsoft are all about sales network. Partners take care of the sale and they can take care of the installation on site and the servicing. I'm sorry to say but B2B sales companies have nothing to do with restaurant delivery at all. It was a really really bad comparison.
rattray 6y ago
> Isn't part of being a successful business knowing where to put your energy as a business owner? If you own a small restaurant... are you really in it to be a tycoon of industry? Or are you passionate about the food and the community? I know I want to spend as little time as possible thinking about sales and marketing, and just focus on improving my product and making my customers happy.
- bobthepanda 6y ago
  Most small restaurants fail within a year of opening. It’s a very tough business. Some app claiming that you are partnering with them for delivery when that is not the case is not necessarily positive for a business given potential reputational risk.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    > Most small restaurants fail within a year of opening. It’s a very tough business. Why is that? Seems straightforward - exchange food for money. Why's that so difficult to make work?
    - jldugger 6y ago
      As far as I can tell, every home for sale or rent in america requires a kitchen. So basically everyone is in competition with them.
    - bobthepanda 6y ago
      1. there's lots of competition. restaurants are an extremely common business in existence and to start. 2. product market fit. you think your cooking is good. Do other people think your cooking is good? Do other people think your cooking is worth coming back for in a week, a month, or a year? You can try and do trendy things in food but these trends come and go quickly. 3. Rent and capital costs. It is expensive to fit a space for a kitchen, so you probably took a loan for that. Landlords are trying to squeeze every dollar they can out of you. There may be cheaper options than a leased space like a food truck or a sidewalk stand, but if they're even legal where you are the permits aren't cheap and there's usually a long waitlist. And better locations with more foot traffic cost more money. 4. Labor & management. Most people do not have experience running a restaurant's operations, which have to be tightly managed to both keep expenses down and keep service at decent levels. Bad service will turn customers away for good and bad word of mouth can snowball. 5. Margin. The tendency for new restauranteurs is that they underestimate their expenses and how much margin they need to be making. Prices need to be right for the market you're trying to serve, but you also need to not scare away too many customers. What pencils out in a home kitchen is not necessarily what pencils out in a restaurant.

_huayra_ 6y ago

This is already the case with bigger companies. As is the usual case with a lot "disruptive" firms, that "growth hacking" comes from exploiting some regulatory loophole that no one else has seen yet (e.g. most things related to the "sharing economy"). I'm pretty sure if I just declared myself to be a sales partner (idk the term?) of Cisco, IBM, Oracle, etc and just resold their gear, I'd be in hot water legally because my actions would reflect on them.

nradov 6y ago
There is nothing illegal about purchasing hardware products from those companies and then selling them on to other customers, even without a formal sales agreement in place. This is the first sale doctrine. However software is different and licenses can't necessarily be resold.
- ghaff 6y ago
  And, of course, many hardware products do have software components these days. But, yes, in general you can resell hardware without a formal agreement. You just can't claim to be an authorized partner or reseller given that implies certain training levels, etc.
jldugger 6y ago
>I'm pretty sure if I just declared myself to be a sales partner (idk the term?) of Cisco, IBM, Oracle, etc and just resold their gear, I'd be in hot water legally because my actions would reflect on them. This is pretty much how local governments buy IT gear. Put out a "I want a router" low volume RFP that the tech companies don't want to bother with, and some local vendor will resell to you. Ideally, they're getting a volume discount and sharing some of it with you at least.
- _huayra_ 6y ago
  But don't those vendors have to have some sales agreement with Cisco? I'm guessing they don't after reading about it a bit more, but I'm just surprised.
  - user5994461 6y ago
    Yes they do. They have a special website and phone line to order goods at a discount (in volume) and to get direct support/return. Cisco/HP/Oracle/VmWare/Microsoft are all about sales network. Partners take care of the sale and they can take care of the installation on site and the servicing. I'm sorry to say but B2B sales companies have nothing to do with restaurant delivery at all. It was a really really bad comparison.

rattray 6y ago

> Isn't part of being a successful business knowing where to put your energy as a business owner? If you own a small restaurant... are you really in it to be a tycoon of industry? Or are you passionate about the food and the community? I know I want to spend as little time as possible thinking about sales and marketing, and just focus on improving my product and making my customers happy.

bobthepanda 6y ago
Most small restaurants fail within a year of opening. It’s a very tough business. Some app claiming that you are partnering with them for delivery when that is not the case is not necessarily positive for a business given potential reputational risk.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  > Most small restaurants fail within a year of opening. It’s a very tough business. Why is that? Seems straightforward - exchange food for money. Why's that so difficult to make work?
  - jldugger 6y ago
    As far as I can tell, every home for sale or rent in america requires a kitchen. So basically everyone is in competition with them.
  - bobthepanda 6y ago
    1. there's lots of competition. restaurants are an extremely common business in existence and to start. 2. product market fit. you think your cooking is good. Do other people think your cooking is good? Do other people think your cooking is worth coming back for in a week, a month, or a year? You can try and do trendy things in food but these trends come and go quickly. 3. Rent and capital costs. It is expensive to fit a space for a kitchen, so you probably took a loan for that. Landlords are trying to squeeze every dollar they can out of you. There may be cheaper options than a leased space like a food truck or a sidewalk stand, but if they're even legal where you are the permits aren't cheap and there's usually a long waitlist. And better locations with more foot traffic cost more money. 4. Labor & management. Most people do not have experience running a restaurant's operations, which have to be tightly managed to both keep expenses down and keep service at decent levels. Bad service will turn customers away for good and bad word of mouth can snowball. 5. Margin. The tendency for new restauranteurs is that they underestimate their expenses and how much margin they need to be making. Prices need to be right for the market you're trying to serve, but you also need to not scare away too many customers. What pencils out in a home kitchen is not necessarily what pencils out in a restaurant.