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> 3. Hit by car. Unneutered pets are much more likely to escape randomly and get hit by cars. Even pets that normally do not run away from their owners. Is the

by Niten 6y ago

> 3. Hit by car. Unneutered pets are much more likely to escape randomly and get hit by cars. Even pets that normally do not run away from their owners. Is there evidence of a causal relationship here?

sjg007 6y ago
They are running off to sow their oats.
- Talanes 6y ago
  The inference is obvious, I assume the poster is looking for actual data.
  - postalrat 6y ago
    After owning an unneutered dog when I was a kid I can't imagine the data shows anything else.
  - Hnrobert42 6y ago
    I wonder how you would collect that data.
    - redtexture 6y ago
      7 of the best GPS dog collars and trackers to keep tabs on your pet https://mashable.com/roundup/best-gps-dog-collars/ https://mashable.com/roundup/best-gps-dog-collars/
      - Hnrobert42 6y ago
        But how would you test the inference with that data? You don’t need to know when the dog crossed the road but why. Which reminds me of this Far Side cartoon: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/251990541629282256/ https://www.pinterest.com/pin/251990541629282256/
    - mjevans 6y ago
      I suspect a study to prove the exact means of connection is very difficult. A retrospective study would be easier. Based on a survey of a given vets files (not quite a random sample, but for this case it might be good enough to establish a bias in facts), could trace the incidence rate of 'yard escape injuries' between 'intact' and neutered males, as well as 'intact' and spayed females.
  - nbadg 6y ago
    I want to preface this by saying: veterinary science is just that, a science. Your vet has spent their career, hopefully anyways, learning what the best veterinary minds know about veterinary medicine. And your vet is probably a whole lot more trustworthy than random comments on the internet like this one. But with that said, I agree completely with the above: citation sorely needed. Show me the data. One of the first conversations I had with my vet was about when I could start running with my dog. There's a lot of conversation online about how you need to wait until growth plates fuse to avoid future health issues (or similar variations on the same theme). Her response was, to paraphrase: > This is all just folk wisdom. There's no proper scientific evidence to support that conclusion, and it doesn't make sense to me. What distance are you running? Do you think a wolf could run that distance at your dog's age? You know your dog, just pay attention to her; play it by ear, don't take it too hard, take it easier on harder surfaces like concrete, and get her used to running before pushing hard. When she said that, something really clicked in my head. We're finally, finally starting to talk more about evidenced-based medicine when it comes to humans, but when it comes to animals... The plain fact of the matter is that much of veterinary medicine is really just our best guess at things. All of the problems that human medical research have are magnified substantially in the veterinary world, even if just because of how much more resource-constrained it is. I'm having a really tough time coming up with hard numbers here -- I can't find anything at all from the US -- but I found a UK report from about a decade ago [1] that, adjusting for inflation and currency conversion, suggests that $230mm USD was spent in the UK on all veterinary research, with a heavy emphasis on agriculture over pets (extremely unsurprising!). Meanwhile, about $3bb USD was spent on human medical research [2], with about $866mm USD spent for cancer research alone[3]. Think about how many conflicting studies we hear about cancer risk in humans. Now imagine how much worse it would be with less than 1/10 the budget. And again, most of veterinary research is specific to agriculture, not pets, so now imagine how much more worse it would be if most of that research money was spent on treating other species in completely different environments, with no interest in how it relates to humans. So again: veterinary medicine is a scientific field, and part of your vet's job is to keep abreast of the literature, and they can almost certainly do a better job of it than you or I. But if you've ever been hit by the thought "man, there is just soooo much we do not understand about human biology" or caught yourself saying "anecdata isn't the same as medical research"... when it comes to veterinary medicine, the situation is much, much worse. [1] https://www.rcvs.org.uk/news-and-views/publications/veterinary-research-in-the-uk-a-snapshot/ https://www.rcvs.org.uk/news-and-views/publications/veterina... [2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/298897/united-kingdom-uk-public-sector-expenditure-medical-research/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/298897/united-kingdom-uk... [3] https://www.stroke.org.uk/sites/default/files/sa-research_spend_in_the_uk_july2016_web.pdf https://www.stroke.org.uk/sites/default/files/sa-research_sp...
astura 6y ago
Most people I personally know/knew didn't spay/neuter their pets when I was growing up. I've seen animals do some absolutely bonkers crazy stuff while in heat. I know an intact female pet that literally broke a screen window to jump out said window in order to mate. This was a second story window, yes she jumped out of a second story window! So I don't doubt it for even a second.

by Niten 6y ago

sjg007 6y ago

They are running off to sow their oats.

Talanes 6y ago
The inference is obvious, I assume the poster is looking for actual data.
- postalrat 6y ago
  After owning an unneutered dog when I was a kid I can't imagine the data shows anything else.
- Hnrobert42 6y ago
  I wonder how you would collect that data.
  - redtexture 6y ago
    7 of the best GPS dog collars and trackers to keep tabs on your pet https://mashable.com/roundup/best-gps-dog-collars/ https://mashable.com/roundup/best-gps-dog-collars/
    - Hnrobert42 6y ago
      But how would you test the inference with that data? You don’t need to know when the dog crossed the road but why. Which reminds me of this Far Side cartoon: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/251990541629282256/ https://www.pinterest.com/pin/251990541629282256/
  - mjevans 6y ago
    I suspect a study to prove the exact means of connection is very difficult. A retrospective study would be easier. Based on a survey of a given vets files (not quite a random sample, but for this case it might be good enough to establish a bias in facts), could trace the incidence rate of 'yard escape injuries' between 'intact' and neutered males, as well as 'intact' and spayed females.
- nbadg 6y ago
  I want to preface this by saying: veterinary science is just that, a science. Your vet has spent their career, hopefully anyways, learning what the best veterinary minds know about veterinary medicine. And your vet is probably a whole lot more trustworthy than random comments on the internet like this one. But with that said, I agree completely with the above: citation sorely needed. Show me the data. One of the first conversations I had with my vet was about when I could start running with my dog. There's a lot of conversation online about how you need to wait until growth plates fuse to avoid future health issues (or similar variations on the same theme). Her response was, to paraphrase: > This is all just folk wisdom. There's no proper scientific evidence to support that conclusion, and it doesn't make sense to me. What distance are you running? Do you think a wolf could run that distance at your dog's age? You know your dog, just pay attention to her; play it by ear, don't take it too hard, take it easier on harder surfaces like concrete, and get her used to running before pushing hard. When she said that, something really clicked in my head. We're finally, finally starting to talk more about evidenced-based medicine when it comes to humans, but when it comes to animals... The plain fact of the matter is that much of veterinary medicine is really just our best guess at things. All of the problems that human medical research have are magnified substantially in the veterinary world, even if just because of how much more resource-constrained it is. I'm having a really tough time coming up with hard numbers here -- I can't find anything at all from the US -- but I found a UK report from about a decade ago [1] that, adjusting for inflation and currency conversion, suggests that $230mm USD was spent in the UK on all veterinary research, with a heavy emphasis on agriculture over pets (extremely unsurprising!). Meanwhile, about $3bb USD was spent on human medical research [2], with about $866mm USD spent for cancer research alone[3]. Think about how many conflicting studies we hear about cancer risk in humans. Now imagine how much worse it would be with less than 1/10 the budget. And again, most of veterinary research is specific to agriculture, not pets, so now imagine how much more worse it would be if most of that research money was spent on treating other species in completely different environments, with no interest in how it relates to humans. So again: veterinary medicine is a scientific field, and part of your vet's job is to keep abreast of the literature, and they can almost certainly do a better job of it than you or I. But if you've ever been hit by the thought "man, there is just soooo much we do not understand about human biology" or caught yourself saying "anecdata isn't the same as medical research"... when it comes to veterinary medicine, the situation is much, much worse. [1] https://www.rcvs.org.uk/news-and-views/publications/veterinary-research-in-the-uk-a-snapshot/ https://www.rcvs.org.uk/news-and-views/publications/veterina... [2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/298897/united-kingdom-uk-public-sector-expenditure-medical-research/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/298897/united-kingdom-uk... [3] https://www.stroke.org.uk/sites/default/files/sa-research_spend_in_the_uk_july2016_web.pdf https://www.stroke.org.uk/sites/default/files/sa-research_sp...

astura 6y ago

Most people I personally know/knew didn't spay/neuter their pets when I was growing up. I've seen animals do some absolutely bonkers crazy stuff while in heat. I know an intact female pet that literally broke a screen window to jump out said window in order to mate. This was a second story window, yes she jumped out of a second story window! So I don't doubt it for even a second.