17 ms·

It doesn't matter these days. Google Maps just works, I've driven in London dozens of times with absolutely no issues. There is zero reason to continue to have

It doesn't matter these days. Google Maps just works, I've driven in London dozens of times with absolutely no issues. There is zero reason to continue to have such a complicated test for taxi drivers when satnavs are so effective, all it does is raise costs for riders and make it harder for people to become drivers.

LatteLazy 6y ago
I 100% agree. Its been that way for at least a decade (garmin GPS before Google maps). It's a weird sort of self sustaining monopoly/club/political-group now.
raspyberr 6y ago
You're right about that SatNavs are very effective but what are you actually comparing? London Cabs aren't the only taxi service in London. You can choose to drive in London. You can take the tube. What's the issue?
danpalmer 6y ago
Please don't take this as a personal attack, but I see this sort of attitude as the crux of the tech "disruption fetish". I'm guilty of the same thing often, but I have to push myself to see past the tech solution and to the human expertise it is replacing. Also this isn't so much a defence of cabbies, I don't use them and think them expensive an antiquated. It's a defence of the process being a better one than the relatively basic tech solution we have so far. Google Maps just isn't that smart yet. Yes, you can absolutely drive a car through London on a route yourself and it'll work fine, for some definition of "fine". On the other hand a taxi driver is supposed to be able to perform to a far better definition of fine[1]. Google Maps accounts for traffic when it's bad. Does it account for traffic patterns before it gets bad? Maybe, badly. Does it account for bad traffic that it knows is going to happen because it chatted about an event in a certain place with another cabbie over tea earlier, or because it knows that there's a road closure for a race this afternoon? No. Google Maps is so far from taking into account things like this, but they are natural for a human, particularly one with expertise. Google Maps will take you to a place, but what if the place you need is more nuanced than that? The stations in London often have multiple entrances, and walking from the wrong entrance to your platform could be 5 minutes and you'll miss your train because of it. Cabbies can take you to the correct entrance because they know this. Does Google Maps account for this? Maybe, badly. What if you need to get to the stage door of a theatre? This could be a few minutes away from the public entrance, but cabbies are supposed to know these sorts of landmarks. Does Google Maps account for this? No. What if you want to go to The Dorchester, let's hope you get directions to the hotel and not the town. It's easy to excuse getting the wrong entrance to a location, or being off by 15 minutes on a journey, when it's just you driving yourself through London, but this doesn't work at the scale of public transport, and doesn't work if you are buying a service from a provider who is supposed to have intimate knowledge of the city. Tech can probably manage these things at some point, but like with so much "disruption", we've solved a basic version of the problem and declared it better and stopped listening to people who have collectively been doing it for a century. [1]: Some taxi drivers in London are crap because they can't be bothered. I'm talking about the hypothetical good, qualified, cabbie.
- pbhjpbhj 6y ago
  Someone must have done a cabbie vs. satnav challenge surely? Does Google definitely not account for future events? If I plan a journey for London Marathon day, say, does it not even warn me of delays? Does it take in warnings of engineering works (eg for rail travel)?
  - raspyberr 6y ago
    They have. Just search on YouTube. The ones I could quickly find were about 10 years old unfortunately and not exactly extensive experiments.
  - danpalmer 6y ago
    I wouldn't be surprised if Google accounts for the London Marathon. Does it account for the opening night of a new show in the West End? I highly doubt it. I don't think Google maintain their own data for rail travel, and the data sources aren't that good, so I doubt they'll be accounting for engineering works unless either they are scheduled far in advance or they've been happening for a while. In my experience it takes time equivalent to a bunch of people having a crap journey and Google collecting that data for Google's instructions to change, they're not pre-emptive based on expert knowledge, they're reactive based on collected data.
  - notatoad 6y ago
    >someone must have done a cabbie vs satnav challenge I'd argue it's been happening on a fairly large scale for the last few years. That Uber is competitive is a good sign that the Knowledge isn't nearly as much of an advantage as the cabbies would have you believe, but nor has it been completely eclipsed by tech
- xadhominemx 6y ago
  Waze does a much better job of accounting for traffic than cabbies. It's true that sometimes cabbies will drop you off at a better door - is that worth 30 pounds?
  - 6y ago
easytiger 6y ago
It doesn't, especially recently with lots of road closures and such. One journey I know and have had to do regularly to look after a relative since lockdown, Google maps takes a significant journey of around 30 minutes when I or a cab driver can do it in less than 15. One wrong turn and a lack of initiative from a driver can lead you to a very long journey given the destruction of the central London road system

LatteLazy 6y ago

I 100% agree. Its been that way for at least a decade (garmin GPS before Google maps). It's a weird sort of self sustaining monopoly/club/political-group now.

raspyberr 6y ago

You're right about that SatNavs are very effective but what are you actually comparing? London Cabs aren't the only taxi service in London. You can choose to drive in London. You can take the tube. What's the issue?

danpalmer 6y ago

Please don't take this as a personal attack, but I see this sort of attitude as the crux of the tech "disruption fetish". I'm guilty of the same thing often, but I have to push myself to see past the tech solution and to the human expertise it is replacing. Also this isn't so much a defence of cabbies, I don't use them and think them expensive an antiquated. It's a defence of the process being a better one than the relatively basic tech solution we have so far. Google Maps just isn't that smart yet. Yes, you can absolutely drive a car through London on a route yourself and it'll work fine, for some definition of "fine". On the other hand a taxi driver is supposed to be able to perform to a far better definition of fine[1]. Google Maps accounts for traffic when it's bad. Does it account for traffic patterns before it gets bad? Maybe, badly. Does it account for bad traffic that it knows is going to happen because it chatted about an event in a certain place with another cabbie over tea earlier, or because it knows that there's a road closure for a race this afternoon? No. Google Maps is so far from taking into account things like this, but they are natural for a human, particularly one with expertise. Google Maps will take you to a place, but what if the place you need is more nuanced than that? The stations in London often have multiple entrances, and walking from the wrong entrance to your platform could be 5 minutes and you'll miss your train because of it. Cabbies can take you to the correct entrance because they know this. Does Google Maps account for this? Maybe, badly. What if you need to get to the stage door of a theatre? This could be a few minutes away from the public entrance, but cabbies are supposed to know these sorts of landmarks. Does Google Maps account for this? No. What if you want to go to The Dorchester, let's hope you get directions to the hotel and not the town. It's easy to excuse getting the wrong entrance to a location, or being off by 15 minutes on a journey, when it's just you driving yourself through London, but this doesn't work at the scale of public transport, and doesn't work if you are buying a service from a provider who is supposed to have intimate knowledge of the city. Tech can probably manage these things at some point, but like with so much "disruption", we've solved a basic version of the problem and declared it better and stopped listening to people who have collectively been doing it for a century. [1]: Some taxi drivers in London are crap because they can't be bothered. I'm talking about the hypothetical good, qualified, cabbie.

pbhjpbhj 6y ago
Someone must have done a cabbie vs. satnav challenge surely? Does Google definitely not account for future events? If I plan a journey for London Marathon day, say, does it not even warn me of delays? Does it take in warnings of engineering works (eg for rail travel)?
- raspyberr 6y ago
  They have. Just search on YouTube. The ones I could quickly find were about 10 years old unfortunately and not exactly extensive experiments.
- danpalmer 6y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if Google accounts for the London Marathon. Does it account for the opening night of a new show in the West End? I highly doubt it. I don't think Google maintain their own data for rail travel, and the data sources aren't that good, so I doubt they'll be accounting for engineering works unless either they are scheduled far in advance or they've been happening for a while. In my experience it takes time equivalent to a bunch of people having a crap journey and Google collecting that data for Google's instructions to change, they're not pre-emptive based on expert knowledge, they're reactive based on collected data.
- notatoad 6y ago
  >someone must have done a cabbie vs satnav challenge I'd argue it's been happening on a fairly large scale for the last few years. That Uber is competitive is a good sign that the Knowledge isn't nearly as much of an advantage as the cabbies would have you believe, but nor has it been completely eclipsed by tech
xadhominemx 6y ago
Waze does a much better job of accounting for traffic than cabbies. It's true that sometimes cabbies will drop you off at a better door - is that worth 30 pounds?
- 6y ago

easytiger 6y ago

It doesn't, especially recently with lots of road closures and such. One journey I know and have had to do regularly to look after a relative since lockdown, Google maps takes a significant journey of around 30 minutes when I or a cab driver can do it in less than 15. One wrong turn and a lack of initiative from a driver can lead you to a very long journey given the destruction of the central London road system