6 ms·

Third-party foundations finding legitimate instances of sexual abuse of children is going to be incredibly rare because how would you ever tell 18 and 17-year-o

Third-party foundations finding legitimate instances of sexual abuse of children is going to be incredibly rare because how would you ever tell 18 and 17-year-olds apart? Facebook has much more information available to them and they are aggressively checking their platform for it, that's why they find so many instances.

DanBC 6y ago
IWF have access to billions of images and video of child sexual abuse and they take reports from law enforcement world wide. They create various filtering databases that can be used by ISPs and companies. https://www.iwf.org.uk/what-we-do/who-we-are https://www.iwf.org.uk/what-we-do/who-we-are
- freehunter 6y ago
  That helps for the cases where someone is abusing a child and the police were involved. Does it help when a 15/16/17 year old uploads their own pictures/videos without anyone knowing their actual age? Or when someone's boyfriend/girlfriend records them and uploads it without the victim knowing? Like Youtube's filter will catch me uploading a video with a Taylor Swift song in it but not someone uploading a video using one of my independently produced/distributed songs, because their filter doesn't have my music in it.
  - totony 6y ago
    >Does it help when a 15/16/17 year old uploads their own pictures/videos without anyone knowing their actual age? Is that even that much of an issue? Why is there such an obsession on this? >Or when someone's boyfriend/girlfriend records them and uploads it without the victim knowing? There's really no way to prevent this but to abandon privacy/force verification. It's not a problem exclusive to pornhub.
    - freehunter 6y ago
      >Why is there such an obsession on this? Because viewing/storing this material is illegal for everyone except the minor in question. If a minor posts a nude picture on Reddit and I view/save it, I'm guilty of possession of child pornography. Maybe I could get the charges dropped if I can argue/prove I didn't know they were underage, but lives are ruined over mere allegations of child sexual misconduct and that reputation would follow me everywhere. >There's really no way to prevent this but to abandon privacy/force verification. Which is why official producers of pornography are required by law to verify age and consent of all of their actors (18 U.S.C. § 2257). The problem is when they allow producers to distribute pornographic materials on their platform without verification that the producer is following the law, like PornHub and Reddit and Imgur and Tumblr etc. Forcing verification is already in the law for producing pornographic materials. >It's not a problem exclusive to pornhub Correct, but the fact that other companies are violating the law does not absolve PornHub of their responsibilities.
      - totony 6y ago
        I understand the legality, but imo the legality itself should be challenged. If you legit can't tell something is illegal why can you be prosecuted for it? There was no intent to harm. Also why is it illegal? I understand child exploitation or if someone is taking advantage/not considered old enough to make that decision, but I've never really understood why it's illegal for 17 year olds to distribute nudes. And even then, would you rather have a few false positives or more freedom and privacy?
true_religion 6y ago
Also Facebook is much much bigger than PornHub. This cannot be stated enough. For many people Facebook is the internet. Facebook handles commercial transactions, conversations between family members and is the sole source of contact between old friends. Other than Facebook, I'd guess the biggest source/storage spot for CP would be Gmail. Unlike PornHub, Facebook has to contend with actual children sending pictures back and forth to each other, just like our generation sexted on AIM and IRC. Last of all, PornHub content is mostly public so people will flag content and take cause it to be taken down fairly quickly, while Facebook can have content hidden away for ages inside some private chat or private group. So the recap: 1. Facebook is bigger 2. Facebook has more source material (i.e. under 18 year olds use the platform) 3. Facebook is has less crowd-source moderation (so illegal content builds up like sediment)
tasuki 6y ago
Is 17 year old a "legitimate instance of sexual abuse of children" while 18 year old is "perfectly okay"? I don't think such a strong border makes sense. People grow up gradually, they don't magically transform from irresponsible children to responsible adults the very day they reach their 18th birthday.

DanBC 6y ago

IWF have access to billions of images and video of child sexual abuse and they take reports from law enforcement world wide. They create various filtering databases that can be used by ISPs and companies. https://www.iwf.org.uk/what-we-do/who-we-are https://www.iwf.org.uk/what-we-do/who-we-are

freehunter 6y ago
That helps for the cases where someone is abusing a child and the police were involved. Does it help when a 15/16/17 year old uploads their own pictures/videos without anyone knowing their actual age? Or when someone's boyfriend/girlfriend records them and uploads it without the victim knowing? Like Youtube's filter will catch me uploading a video with a Taylor Swift song in it but not someone uploading a video using one of my independently produced/distributed songs, because their filter doesn't have my music in it.
- totony 6y ago
  >Does it help when a 15/16/17 year old uploads their own pictures/videos without anyone knowing their actual age? Is that even that much of an issue? Why is there such an obsession on this? >Or when someone's boyfriend/girlfriend records them and uploads it without the victim knowing? There's really no way to prevent this but to abandon privacy/force verification. It's not a problem exclusive to pornhub.
  - freehunter 6y ago
    >Why is there such an obsession on this? Because viewing/storing this material is illegal for everyone except the minor in question. If a minor posts a nude picture on Reddit and I view/save it, I'm guilty of possession of child pornography. Maybe I could get the charges dropped if I can argue/prove I didn't know they were underage, but lives are ruined over mere allegations of child sexual misconduct and that reputation would follow me everywhere. >There's really no way to prevent this but to abandon privacy/force verification. Which is why official producers of pornography are required by law to verify age and consent of all of their actors (18 U.S.C. § 2257). The problem is when they allow producers to distribute pornographic materials on their platform without verification that the producer is following the law, like PornHub and Reddit and Imgur and Tumblr etc. Forcing verification is already in the law for producing pornographic materials. >It's not a problem exclusive to pornhub Correct, but the fact that other companies are violating the law does not absolve PornHub of their responsibilities.
    - totony 6y ago
      I understand the legality, but imo the legality itself should be challenged. If you legit can't tell something is illegal why can you be prosecuted for it? There was no intent to harm. Also why is it illegal? I understand child exploitation or if someone is taking advantage/not considered old enough to make that decision, but I've never really understood why it's illegal for 17 year olds to distribute nudes. And even then, would you rather have a few false positives or more freedom and privacy?

true_religion 6y ago

Also Facebook is much much bigger than PornHub. This cannot be stated enough. For many people Facebook is the internet. Facebook handles commercial transactions, conversations between family members and is the sole source of contact between old friends. Other than Facebook, I'd guess the biggest source/storage spot for CP would be Gmail. Unlike PornHub, Facebook has to contend with actual children sending pictures back and forth to each other, just like our generation sexted on AIM and IRC. Last of all, PornHub content is mostly public so people will flag content and take cause it to be taken down fairly quickly, while Facebook can have content hidden away for ages inside some private chat or private group. So the recap: 1. Facebook is bigger 2. Facebook has more source material (i.e. under 18 year olds use the platform) 3. Facebook is has less crowd-source moderation (so illegal content builds up like sediment)

tasuki 6y ago

Is 17 year old a "legitimate instance of sexual abuse of children" while 18 year old is "perfectly okay"? I don't think such a strong border makes sense. People grow up gradually, they don't magically transform from irresponsible children to responsible adults the very day they reach their 18th birthday.