7 ms·

If I recall, fraud and bribery were indeed issues at Standard & Poor’s and Moody’s. Not going to argue that. > good thing about government agencies is that the

by pgayed 6y ago

If I recall, fraud and bribery were indeed issues at Standard & Poor’s and Moody’s. Not going to argue that. > good thing about government agencies is that they're not driven by greed So what are they driven by? And how do you know?

burntoutfire 6y ago
Fundamentally, they're driven by politicians who want to get re-elected. So, they try to steer these agencies into doing something positive for the people. Of course, there's a ton of corruption and waste along the way, but at least the core goal is to do good and not to get as rich as quickly as possible, which seems to be an operating principle of most private enterprises.
- pgayed 6y ago
  > the core goal is to do good and not to get as rich as quickly as possible How can you "get rich" without doing good? > which seems to be an operating principle of most private enterprises How else could private enterprises determine if they are producing anything of value to others?
  - burntoutfire 6y ago
    > How can you "get rich" without doing good? Cheat? Steal? Monopolize industries and charge exorbitant prices? Manufacture cigarettes? Etc etc.
    - pgayed 6y ago
      You cannot "cheat" and "steal" your way to massive wealth because those are forms of leakage on the primary pile. (You can only cheat, steal and siphon from piles of money people submit for services they desire—even if you consider the price to be "unfair".) You cannot monopolize an industry that doesn't provide something people want in the first place. In general, you're talking about extraction or leakage, which represent a tiny fraction of money that changes hands. You may have an issue about "what's fair" but you give weak examples of how people get "rich".
      - burntoutfire 6y ago
        You asked "how you can get rich without doing good?". So, regarding stealing, let me give a concrete - the Russian oligarchs have become massively wealthy by stealing the companies which were previously owned by USSR's state. Sure the companies are likely providing valuable services, but the oligarchs didn't do an ounce of good and yet became obscenely rich. Q.E.D. Regarding monopolization - do you think it's benign then? Why are there laws that prevent it then? Are they wrong? You ignored completely the part about producing and marketing harmful and addictive substances. Do you think the execs of those companies are doing good? Would you personally write a thank you note to them for getting billions of people addicted and millions killed by cancer due to their actions (which have lead to their wealth)? If not, then the tobacco company owners are another example of "people getting rich without doing good". Lastly, let's maybe finish with the most obvious example - a hacker steals into somebody's bitcoin store and steal millions worth of bitcoin. Surely you can agree that he has now became wealthy without doing any good?

by pgayed 6y ago

burntoutfire 6y ago

Fundamentally, they're driven by politicians who want to get re-elected. So, they try to steer these agencies into doing something positive for the people. Of course, there's a ton of corruption and waste along the way, but at least the core goal is to do good and not to get as rich as quickly as possible, which seems to be an operating principle of most private enterprises.

pgayed 6y ago
> the core goal is to do good and not to get as rich as quickly as possible How can you "get rich" without doing good? > which seems to be an operating principle of most private enterprises How else could private enterprises determine if they are producing anything of value to others?
- burntoutfire 6y ago
  > How can you "get rich" without doing good? Cheat? Steal? Monopolize industries and charge exorbitant prices? Manufacture cigarettes? Etc etc.
  - pgayed 6y ago
    You cannot "cheat" and "steal" your way to massive wealth because those are forms of leakage on the primary pile. (You can only cheat, steal and siphon from piles of money people submit for services they desire—even if you consider the price to be "unfair".) You cannot monopolize an industry that doesn't provide something people want in the first place. In general, you're talking about extraction or leakage, which represent a tiny fraction of money that changes hands. You may have an issue about "what's fair" but you give weak examples of how people get "rich".
    - burntoutfire 6y ago
      You asked "how you can get rich without doing good?". So, regarding stealing, let me give a concrete - the Russian oligarchs have become massively wealthy by stealing the companies which were previously owned by USSR's state. Sure the companies are likely providing valuable services, but the oligarchs didn't do an ounce of good and yet became obscenely rich. Q.E.D. Regarding monopolization - do you think it's benign then? Why are there laws that prevent it then? Are they wrong? You ignored completely the part about producing and marketing harmful and addictive substances. Do you think the execs of those companies are doing good? Would you personally write a thank you note to them for getting billions of people addicted and millions killed by cancer due to their actions (which have lead to their wealth)? If not, then the tobacco company owners are another example of "people getting rich without doing good". Lastly, let's maybe finish with the most obvious example - a hacker steals into somebody's bitcoin store and steal millions worth of bitcoin. Surely you can agree that he has now became wealthy without doing any good?