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Isn't that exactly what the average person has wanted out of a computer for a long time though? Most people never change anything in their system, and know lit

Isn't that exactly what the average person has wanted out of a computer for a long time though? Most people never change anything in their system, and know little more than exactly what they need to do the specific tasks they want to do (writing documents, photo storage, e.t.c) An appliance like system where "it just works" and you never need to understand any of the structure or fiddle with the computer in any way is probably exactly what a lot of people want.

oblio 6y ago
And even in that regard, these systems are still failing them. See this meme on Reddit: https://i.redd.it/piq0jq56fa261.jpg https://i.redd.it/piq0jq56fa261.jpg Even the systems that should most "just work" still leak abstractions like sieves.
this_was_posted 6y ago
What you want isn't always what you need. Things just working is nice, but I'm not sure how much people are aware of the value of actually owning things and being able to move to a competitor without loosing everything. As these monopolists tighten their grip on these devices you see them limiting functionality and use cases AFTER you've purchased them, just because they can.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- epicureanideal 6y ago
  That sounds like a once-in-several-lifetimes business opportunity that they won't get a chance to repeat. After tens of millions of people are harmed by this, laws will be passed, or knowledge will be passed down never to do this again.
  - marcosdumay 6y ago
    Tell me when Microsoft is bankrupt. They were one of the first to do that, and have been doing for more than a decade, while profits only increase. Then Google, Apple and Amazon.
    - epicureanideal 6y ago
      It hasn't become enough of a pain yet. People haven't been sufficiently burned.
romanovcode 6y ago
I think this is exactly what average computer user wants. Also, even if I like to tweak linux to my liking, I really appreciate how MacOS just works out of the box where I don't have to configure anything (because nothing is configurable). Windows, on the other hand is worse of both worlds - Nothing works from the start, and it's not easily configurable. (Before you bring your pitch-forks I use Windows on daily basis)
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  Can you detail exactly what "nothing works" on Windows for you? I know it's still a fashionable meme on HN to hate Windows and Microsoft for telemetry and Candy Crush, but saying nothing works is a bit of an exaggeration at this point. Using both Windows 10 and Linux at home and work I can say that while linux is the de facto OS for the server/cloud/embedded system, Windows 10 is the rock solid go-to for the laptop/gaming station, especially on laptops with nvidia cards where very few linux distros and desktop environments would not shit the bed on, especially with thunderbolt docks, with multiple displays and various scaling. Authentication via fingerprint readers or IR-cameras on Linux? Good luck with that. Granted, that's not linux's fault that driver support from hardware vendors is absolute dog shit, but as a user/employee/consumer I'm gonna use whatever just-works™ to get my work/entertainment needs fulfilled with minimal friction, and at this point, outside the Apple ecosystem, Windows 10 has the best driver support by hardware vendors by a long shot with linux sadly still relying on reverse engineered drivers by the community or binary blobs which are ignored by the FLOSS community, which turns linux into this dumpster fire on the more "fancy" laptops that use anything more than an intel chip with integrated graphics that are nothing more than ssh terminals.
  - romanovcode 6y ago
    Mail app is unintuitive and has advertisement in it. Paint is barely usable, even after 20 years you still cannot resize the image normally. Screenshot app has is much less easy to use compared to Mac. Default browser is crap. I could go on and on about what's wrong with Windows.
    - 6y ago
fauigerzigerk 6y ago
I think that's a bit of an illusion. Yes, the average person wants tech to "just work", but what that usually means is "just work the way I need it to work for my specific purposes in my specific circumstances". It's true that the average person doesn't want to spend time tinkering with tech and take the risk of breaking things. But that's not the same thing as being happy with how things work, and it's not the same thing as using tech as productively as possible. When I write software or talk to people about how they use software, they always want it to work somewhat differently. They do want customisation for entirely sensible and very specific reasons. They just don't want to do it themselves. That's why consulting and support is a huge global industry. The problem with "just works" is that it only has meaning where the requirements are specified in great detail with very little variability. That's always trivially the case for single purpose household appliances. It's also the case for things like making phone calls or for device drivers. No one wants to "customise" a device driver to stop it from draining the battery. But computers are not single purpose devices. They are used for a million different things in a million different situations. "Just works" is largely undefined outside of core OS functionality. And that's why the appliance metaphor just doesn't work.
- goatinaboat 6y ago
  But that's not the same thing as being happy with how things work, and it's not the same thing as using tech as productively as possible. If productivity of end-users was the goal then we wouldn't see random changes to interfaces that people had learnt, for no other reason than some graphic designer thinks it doesn't look "fresh". The truth is for most of what most people do, computing was solved around 2010-ish and all anyone wants now is for things to be more reliable, faster and cheaper. But that's much harder work for companies that a new flat interface style, or some animated emojis.
  - chungus_khan 6y ago
    That, and their goal isn't actually to make a better product. A better product can be a means to an end, but the real goal is to increase the rate of growth, and more often than not that flat interface style convinces some manager or consumer that they need the latest one. Make the number go up. All hail the number.
spacemanmatt 6y ago
To be 100% certain, most people in my generation (GenX) did not want a computer at all.

oblio 6y ago

And even in that regard, these systems are still failing them. See this meme on Reddit: https://i.redd.it/piq0jq56fa261.jpg https://i.redd.it/piq0jq56fa261.jpg Even the systems that should most "just work" still leak abstractions like sieves.

this_was_posted 6y ago

What you want isn't always what you need. Things just working is nice, but I'm not sure how much people are aware of the value of actually owning things and being able to move to a competitor without loosing everything. As these monopolists tighten their grip on these devices you see them limiting functionality and use cases AFTER you've purchased them, just because they can.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
epicureanideal 6y ago
That sounds like a once-in-several-lifetimes business opportunity that they won't get a chance to repeat. After tens of millions of people are harmed by this, laws will be passed, or knowledge will be passed down never to do this again.
- marcosdumay 6y ago
  Tell me when Microsoft is bankrupt. They were one of the first to do that, and have been doing for more than a decade, while profits only increase. Then Google, Apple and Amazon.
  - epicureanideal 6y ago
    It hasn't become enough of a pain yet. People haven't been sufficiently burned.

romanovcode 6y ago

I think this is exactly what average computer user wants. Also, even if I like to tweak linux to my liking, I really appreciate how MacOS just works out of the box where I don't have to configure anything (because nothing is configurable). Windows, on the other hand is worse of both worlds - Nothing works from the start, and it's not easily configurable. (Before you bring your pitch-forks I use Windows on daily basis)

ChuckNorris89 6y ago
Can you detail exactly what "nothing works" on Windows for you? I know it's still a fashionable meme on HN to hate Windows and Microsoft for telemetry and Candy Crush, but saying nothing works is a bit of an exaggeration at this point. Using both Windows 10 and Linux at home and work I can say that while linux is the de facto OS for the server/cloud/embedded system, Windows 10 is the rock solid go-to for the laptop/gaming station, especially on laptops with nvidia cards where very few linux distros and desktop environments would not shit the bed on, especially with thunderbolt docks, with multiple displays and various scaling. Authentication via fingerprint readers or IR-cameras on Linux? Good luck with that. Granted, that's not linux's fault that driver support from hardware vendors is absolute dog shit, but as a user/employee/consumer I'm gonna use whatever just-works™ to get my work/entertainment needs fulfilled with minimal friction, and at this point, outside the Apple ecosystem, Windows 10 has the best driver support by hardware vendors by a long shot with linux sadly still relying on reverse engineered drivers by the community or binary blobs which are ignored by the FLOSS community, which turns linux into this dumpster fire on the more "fancy" laptops that use anything more than an intel chip with integrated graphics that are nothing more than ssh terminals.
- romanovcode 6y ago
  Mail app is unintuitive and has advertisement in it. Paint is barely usable, even after 20 years you still cannot resize the image normally. Screenshot app has is much less easy to use compared to Mac. Default browser is crap. I could go on and on about what's wrong with Windows.
  - 6y ago

fauigerzigerk 6y ago

I think that's a bit of an illusion. Yes, the average person wants tech to "just work", but what that usually means is "just work the way I need it to work for my specific purposes in my specific circumstances". It's true that the average person doesn't want to spend time tinkering with tech and take the risk of breaking things. But that's not the same thing as being happy with how things work, and it's not the same thing as using tech as productively as possible. When I write software or talk to people about how they use software, they always want it to work somewhat differently. They do want customisation for entirely sensible and very specific reasons. They just don't want to do it themselves. That's why consulting and support is a huge global industry. The problem with "just works" is that it only has meaning where the requirements are specified in great detail with very little variability. That's always trivially the case for single purpose household appliances. It's also the case for things like making phone calls or for device drivers. No one wants to "customise" a device driver to stop it from draining the battery. But computers are not single purpose devices. They are used for a million different things in a million different situations. "Just works" is largely undefined outside of core OS functionality. And that's why the appliance metaphor just doesn't work.

goatinaboat 6y ago
But that's not the same thing as being happy with how things work, and it's not the same thing as using tech as productively as possible. If productivity of end-users was the goal then we wouldn't see random changes to interfaces that people had learnt, for no other reason than some graphic designer thinks it doesn't look "fresh". The truth is for most of what most people do, computing was solved around 2010-ish and all anyone wants now is for things to be more reliable, faster and cheaper. But that's much harder work for companies that a new flat interface style, or some animated emojis.
- chungus_khan 6y ago
  That, and their goal isn't actually to make a better product. A better product can be a means to an end, but the real goal is to increase the rate of growth, and more often than not that flat interface style convinces some manager or consumer that they need the latest one. Make the number go up. All hail the number.

spacemanmatt 6y ago

To be 100% certain, most people in my generation (GenX) did not want a computer at all.