5 ms·

A new model-F keyboard

48 points by desilentio 6y ago

abhinav22 6y ago
Surprised no comments so far. Can somebody give me the lowdown and how does this compare to the originals? Can we get the same quality of electronics in 2020 as we did back in the 60s, 70s and 80s?
- bjoli 6y ago
  I tried one of the recently purchased "modern model F"s. It felt a lot better than my old original model F battleship I sold for a lot of money about 7 years of. I don't know if it was how they felt in pristine condition, because the model F battleship was a lot older than me when I bought it.
  - abhinav22 6y ago
    Many thanks for the feedback. Which one did you buy? Would you recommend me trying out Model F from somebody who has Model M and TOPRE keyboards?
    - bjoli 6y ago
      The weighting is lower than the model M, and the action is smoother. It is however louder. I like the Fs a lot more, but I type very lightly. Model M is almost too stiff for my pinkies. I thought about ordering a new model F. The repairability is amazing. The firmware as well. But then I realized: I don't want a keyboard where I might have to open up and solder something back in. I just want one that works. Currently I rock a silenced MX brown, which I find OK, but the MX switches have lousy tactility. Topre keyboarss, or even a regular rubber dome keyboard, has a lot better tactility and almost no noise. Had the Matias keyboards not had their quality problems I would definitely have used one of those. They are, IMO, the best modern switches feel-wise. Other than that: I don't know why there aren't any topre-ish "opto-electric" keyboards out there. You would get the smoothness of opto-electric, the silent tactility of a rubber dome, with key register before bottoming out. MX brown is a lousy tactile switch, but the easily available competition (apart from topre) is even worse. So: no. Unless you really love your model m and would like it smoother with the caveat that you might have to whip out a soldering iron in a year, I would not buy the new model F. The guy is doing a great job, and QC seems to be a high priority, but they haven't stood the test of time yet.
Scott_Sanderson 6y ago
Looks great but the price for the keyboard with keypad is $455.
- frizkie 6y ago
  Assuming this thing is made from scratch and not somehow using molds from existing products, that's pretty typical for a low-volume custom keyboard, especially after "switches" and keycaps are included.
- ubercow13 6y ago
  Apparently the originals cost $925 https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/misconceptions-about-the-model-f-keyboard-what-initially-scares-many-people-away/ https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/misconceptions-about-the-mod...
bingerman 6y ago
How does this compare with unicomp keyboards ( https://www.pckeyboard.com/ https://www.pckeyboard.com/ ) Both are marketed as buckling spring monsters but surely there are some competent actual reasons to spend the extra money on the model-F?
- bjoli 6y ago
  The difference between model m (what unicomp is producing a replica of) and model F is pretty large. Model F was before they started making the design cheaper (I know. Model M is known for its outstanding quality, but it is in fact a product of cheaping out from the production of the F). Model F's are capacitive. That means "N-key rollover", and something like 4x the rated key press count rating. They are also smoother than Model M. The build is MUCH sturdier than the M. I had an old 122 key model F and it weighed 4 kgs. Edit: A review of the same keyboard I had. https://youtu.be/p_JTZo2rKmw https://youtu.be/p_JTZo2rKmw
- desilentio 6y ago
  The restored model M I've tried had unpleasantly stiff keys; my model F does not.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
opsdisk 6y ago
I just dropped a blog post covering how I restored one of the original Model F keyboards: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25029571 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25029571
CarVac 6y ago
I have one of these. It's incredibly solid, and the typing action is light and snappy, just like the originals.
- udev 6y ago
  How is the noise level when typing? I have an original Model M, and it feels great, but a bit too noisy, e.g. I hear the clicks even when in noise-cancelling headphones.
  - meepmorp 6y ago
    It’s at least as loud as my original Model M. Edit: I have one of the new Model F keyboards, too.
  - CarVac 6y ago
    It's clacky if you bottom out heavily, and twangy even if you don't. The sharpness of the clacks makes noise-cancelling headphones not work so well on it.
meepmorp 6y ago
I have one of these, ANSI F77. It’s really solidly made, and delight to type on. It uses QMK firmware, making it pretty customizable, and you can take the whole thing apart with a screwdriver and pliers. Caveat emptor, you should be willing to fix problems yourself if you get one of these. I don’t think that’s an issue for the crowd here, but it bears mention. For example, mine got kind of beaten up out in shipping, and a some of the springs/feet needed reseating after it arrived. It’s not hard to do, and there’s tons of info on the site about how to do various bits of maintenance on the keyboards.
lproven 6y ago
How come nobody ever even mentions that these so-called reproduction Model F keyboards have a totally different layout? Where are my side-positioned function keys?

48 points by desilentio 6y ago

Surprised no comments so far. Can somebody give me the lowdown and how does this compare to the originals? Can we get the same quality of electronics in 2020 as we did back in the 60s, 70s and 80s?

bjoli 6y ago
I tried one of the recently purchased "modern model F"s. It felt a lot better than my old original model F battleship I sold for a lot of money about 7 years of. I don't know if it was how they felt in pristine condition, because the model F battleship was a lot older than me when I bought it.
- abhinav22 6y ago
  Many thanks for the feedback. Which one did you buy? Would you recommend me trying out Model F from somebody who has Model M and TOPRE keyboards?
  - bjoli 6y ago
    The weighting is lower than the model M, and the action is smoother. It is however louder. I like the Fs a lot more, but I type very lightly. Model M is almost too stiff for my pinkies. I thought about ordering a new model F. The repairability is amazing. The firmware as well. But then I realized: I don't want a keyboard where I might have to open up and solder something back in. I just want one that works. Currently I rock a silenced MX brown, which I find OK, but the MX switches have lousy tactility. Topre keyboarss, or even a regular rubber dome keyboard, has a lot better tactility and almost no noise. Had the Matias keyboards not had their quality problems I would definitely have used one of those. They are, IMO, the best modern switches feel-wise. Other than that: I don't know why there aren't any topre-ish "opto-electric" keyboards out there. You would get the smoothness of opto-electric, the silent tactility of a rubber dome, with key register before bottoming out. MX brown is a lousy tactile switch, but the easily available competition (apart from topre) is even worse. So: no. Unless you really love your model m and would like it smoother with the caveat that you might have to whip out a soldering iron in a year, I would not buy the new model F. The guy is doing a great job, and QC seems to be a high priority, but they haven't stood the test of time yet.

Scott_Sanderson 6y ago

Looks great but the price for the keyboard with keypad is $455.

frizkie 6y ago
Assuming this thing is made from scratch and not somehow using molds from existing products, that's pretty typical for a low-volume custom keyboard, especially after "switches" and keycaps are included.
ubercow13 6y ago
Apparently the originals cost $925 https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/misconceptions-about-the-model-f-keyboard-what-initially-scares-many-people-away/ https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/misconceptions-about-the-mod...

bingerman 6y ago

How does this compare with unicomp keyboards ( https://www.pckeyboard.com/ https://www.pckeyboard.com/ ) Both are marketed as buckling spring monsters but surely there are some competent actual reasons to spend the extra money on the model-F?

bjoli 6y ago
The difference between model m (what unicomp is producing a replica of) and model F is pretty large. Model F was before they started making the design cheaper (I know. Model M is known for its outstanding quality, but it is in fact a product of cheaping out from the production of the F). Model F's are capacitive. That means "N-key rollover", and something like 4x the rated key press count rating. They are also smoother than Model M. The build is MUCH sturdier than the M. I had an old 122 key model F and it weighed 4 kgs. Edit: A review of the same keyboard I had. https://youtu.be/p_JTZo2rKmw https://youtu.be/p_JTZo2rKmw
desilentio 6y ago
The restored model M I've tried had unpleasantly stiff keys; my model F does not.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

opsdisk 6y ago

I just dropped a blog post covering how I restored one of the original Model F keyboards: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25029571 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25029571

CarVac 6y ago

I have one of these. It's incredibly solid, and the typing action is light and snappy, just like the originals.

udev 6y ago
How is the noise level when typing? I have an original Model M, and it feels great, but a bit too noisy, e.g. I hear the clicks even when in noise-cancelling headphones.
- meepmorp 6y ago
  It’s at least as loud as my original Model M. Edit: I have one of the new Model F keyboards, too.
- CarVac 6y ago
  It's clacky if you bottom out heavily, and twangy even if you don't. The sharpness of the clacks makes noise-cancelling headphones not work so well on it.

meepmorp 6y ago

I have one of these, ANSI F77. It’s really solidly made, and delight to type on. It uses QMK firmware, making it pretty customizable, and you can take the whole thing apart with a screwdriver and pliers. Caveat emptor, you should be willing to fix problems yourself if you get one of these. I don’t think that’s an issue for the crowd here, but it bears mention. For example, mine got kind of beaten up out in shipping, and a some of the springs/feet needed reseating after it arrived. It’s not hard to do, and there’s tons of info on the site about how to do various bits of maintenance on the keyboards.

lproven 6y ago

How come nobody ever even mentions that these so-called reproduction Model F keyboards have a totally different layout? Where are my side-positioned function keys?