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You've got to just hope that Apple realizes how bad this would blow up in their face if they worked with police in Belarus to identify democratic protestors, es

You've got to just hope that Apple realizes how bad this would blow up in their face if they worked with police in Belarus to identify democratic protestors, especially given their emphasis on "privacy" in their marketing.

ceilingcorner 6y ago
Unfortunately, I doubt anyone would care for longer than a week. The privacy angle is irrelevant to most of their customers.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  Is privacy not the main way Apple is trying to market themselves against Google?
cheph 6y ago
I doubt Apple fanboys even know about Belarus, after all the media is pointing them everywhere but where actual tyranny, injustice and oppression occurs.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  Weird usage of what’s happening in Belarus to seemingly try to minimize some domestic issue you don’t like?
  - cheph 6y ago
    Pray tell, what domestic issue that I don't like am I trying to minimize? And in answering that, try to not assume the only two places in the world that exists is Belarus and USA.
fauigerzigerk 6y ago
How would it blow up in their face when Apple's customers don't care? Apple has handed over the entire operation of iCloud in China to a regime owned company, including all user data and keys (they did warn users that they were going to do that though). At the same time they do not permit side-loading, thereby handing complete control over what users are allowed to install on their devices to authoritarian regimes. This is not simply "complying with local laws" as they like to present it.
- RotANobot 6y ago
  > Apple has handed over the entire operation of iCloud in China to a regime owned company, including all user data and keys (they did warn users that they were going to do that though). Woah. I don’t know how I missed this news for so long.
  - varjag 6y ago
    They offset that with PR over refusing cooperation with the FBI. A lot easier to be principled in the countries where the rule of law is followed.
    - hu3 6y ago
      And then Apple gave up on strongly encrypting user backups so govs can just ask nicely for iPhone users data anywhere in the world: https://www.androidcentral.com/apple-may-have-ditched-encrypted-backups-google-hasnt https://www.androidcentral.com/apple-may-have-ditched-encryp...
  - m0dest 6y ago
    This is unfortunately the only way to operate an online service in China. It’s standard practice (and a legal requirement) to hand off the ownership and control of Chinese servers to a separate Chinese company. Apple has been pretty transparent about this. One could argue that Apple should have just exited the Chinese market instead of letting the local government spy on their citizens. Google has taken that position.
- throw443243 6y ago
  Apple followed Chinese law, and that’s why iCloud and iMessage are available in China. It’s a similar situation for Microsoft Teams and Skype. If Facebook does the same, they will be available in China too. Google tried to do it with their Project Dragonfly, but bad publicity made them stop.
  - fauigerzigerk 6y ago
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
akudha 6y ago
Why would this blow up in their face? Have you seen the lines outside Apple stores whenever they launch a new product? Apple customers do not care. There is a small minority of people who care (like people on this site) but I bet even they will continue to buy Apple products. We are talking about a mind bogglingly rich company with arrogance to match. Even if this gets them bad PR, it will be forgotten in a few minutes.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  Not me. I feel like Apple has to actually compete with often times higher quality luxury products in 2020. No reason for me to buy any new Apple products and after this news, I won’t.
  - akudha 6y ago
    But you are in the minority. Also, what other alternatives do we have? Google, Amazon, Microsoft... all equally bad or worse. I can't think of any big tech company really standing up to authoritarian (or even democratic) governments, can you?
    - whimsicalism 6y ago
      I agree. But Google's phones are better (in my opinion), the only reason I bought an iPhone is for privacy reasons - if Apple is going to renege on that branding, then no reason not to go back to the better product. Apple was banking on privacy marketing as a competitive edge. I think that was a good strategy. Since they appear to be worse at executing on that strategy than I thought they would be, they are losing that segment of the market.
    - fsflover 6y ago
      Not a big one at all, but https://puri.sm https://puri.sm is trying to stand up.
hamilyon2 6y ago
Android makers and telegram could make huge PR/marketing campaign out of this. I mean huge. Outdoor posters and slogans. TV shows. I mean, this is truly Orwellian stuff, but in real world. Old uncharismatic dictator recruits huge soulless machine of most powerful corporation in the world to rule small poor country. I know this is not entirely true, but people will love this.

ceilingcorner 6y ago

Unfortunately, I doubt anyone would care for longer than a week. The privacy angle is irrelevant to most of their customers.

whimsicalism 6y ago
Is privacy not the main way Apple is trying to market themselves against Google?

cheph 6y ago

I doubt Apple fanboys even know about Belarus, after all the media is pointing them everywhere but where actual tyranny, injustice and oppression occurs.

whimsicalism 6y ago
Weird usage of what’s happening in Belarus to seemingly try to minimize some domestic issue you don’t like?
- cheph 6y ago
  Pray tell, what domestic issue that I don't like am I trying to minimize? And in answering that, try to not assume the only two places in the world that exists is Belarus and USA.

fauigerzigerk 6y ago

How would it blow up in their face when Apple's customers don't care? Apple has handed over the entire operation of iCloud in China to a regime owned company, including all user data and keys (they did warn users that they were going to do that though). At the same time they do not permit side-loading, thereby handing complete control over what users are allowed to install on their devices to authoritarian regimes. This is not simply "complying with local laws" as they like to present it.

RotANobot 6y ago
> Apple has handed over the entire operation of iCloud in China to a regime owned company, including all user data and keys (they did warn users that they were going to do that though). Woah. I don’t know how I missed this news for so long.
- varjag 6y ago
  They offset that with PR over refusing cooperation with the FBI. A lot easier to be principled in the countries where the rule of law is followed.
  - hu3 6y ago
    And then Apple gave up on strongly encrypting user backups so govs can just ask nicely for iPhone users data anywhere in the world: https://www.androidcentral.com/apple-may-have-ditched-encrypted-backups-google-hasnt https://www.androidcentral.com/apple-may-have-ditched-encryp...
- m0dest 6y ago
  This is unfortunately the only way to operate an online service in China. It’s standard practice (and a legal requirement) to hand off the ownership and control of Chinese servers to a separate Chinese company. Apple has been pretty transparent about this. One could argue that Apple should have just exited the Chinese market instead of letting the local government spy on their citizens. Google has taken that position.
throw443243 6y ago
Apple followed Chinese law, and that’s why iCloud and iMessage are available in China. It’s a similar situation for Microsoft Teams and Skype. If Facebook does the same, they will be available in China too. Google tried to do it with their Project Dragonfly, but bad publicity made them stop.
- fauigerzigerk 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

akudha 6y ago

Why would this blow up in their face? Have you seen the lines outside Apple stores whenever they launch a new product? Apple customers do not care. There is a small minority of people who care (like people on this site) but I bet even they will continue to buy Apple products. We are talking about a mind bogglingly rich company with arrogance to match. Even if this gets them bad PR, it will be forgotten in a few minutes.

whimsicalism 6y ago
Not me. I feel like Apple has to actually compete with often times higher quality luxury products in 2020. No reason for me to buy any new Apple products and after this news, I won’t.
- akudha 6y ago
  But you are in the minority. Also, what other alternatives do we have? Google, Amazon, Microsoft... all equally bad or worse. I can't think of any big tech company really standing up to authoritarian (or even democratic) governments, can you?
  - whimsicalism 6y ago
    I agree. But Google's phones are better (in my opinion), the only reason I bought an iPhone is for privacy reasons - if Apple is going to renege on that branding, then no reason not to go back to the better product. Apple was banking on privacy marketing as a competitive edge. I think that was a good strategy. Since they appear to be worse at executing on that strategy than I thought they would be, they are losing that segment of the market.
  - fsflover 6y ago
    Not a big one at all, but https://puri.sm https://puri.sm is trying to stand up.

hamilyon2 6y ago

Android makers and telegram could make huge PR/marketing campaign out of this. I mean huge. Outdoor posters and slogans. TV shows. I mean, this is truly Orwellian stuff, but in real world. Old uncharismatic dictator recruits huge soulless machine of most powerful corporation in the world to rule small poor country. I know this is not entirely true, but people will love this.