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I mean you can say that for any language. If someone has to learn C or Java, you still need to learn how those languages work, build domain expertise and so on.

I mean you can say that for any language. If someone has to learn C or Java, you still need to learn how those languages work, build domain expertise and so on. Swift is a very nice general purpose language and I’ve been writing code decades in almost most mainstream languages. I much prefer writing Swift code, in face some of my back end projects have been written in 100% swift, this allowed me to reuse models and APIs with the iOS and MacOS counterparts.

hajimemash 6y ago
How have you written backend code in Swift, were you able to use it in places you would normally use e.g. C++? I'm asking because I like Obj-C/Swift, and am wondering if it's possible through some clang/LLVM magic to be able to code Obj-C/Swift in environments that expect C or C++, for example like in Qt. Like, could I have a traditionally C++ app (Qt app) but have most of my code be in another LLVM-compatible language.
- julius_set 6y ago
  There’s a very vibrant backend community for Swift, Vapor is growing and used in production for a lot of companies. https://vapor.codes https://vapor.codes
- ratww 6y ago
  > Like, could I have a traditionally C++ app (Qt app) but have most of my code be in another LLVM-compatible language It is possible! I mix Swift and Rust in my day job. I use the C ABI to interface between the two. The Swift layer is very thin and pretty much just a bridge between Rust and Cocoa/UIKit/Metal, but there's nothing stopping you from doing the opposite. If you're going to bridge Swift with Qt, the sanest way is to use Objective-C++ to wrap Qt calls and call it from Swift. However keep in mind that the Swift experience in other Operating Systems might not be as good as in Macs. That's why I went with Rust for this project. But things might have changed in the meantime!
  - hajimemash 6y ago
    That sounds really cool. I did some searching to see people's experiences substituting other languages for C++ through LLVM, and didn't find much other than samples of translated calls. Given that there would be a big benefit to this (not having to learn a new language, less manual memory management), are there good reasons this isn't way more common?
    - ratww 6y ago
      I thought it was pretty common? If you use the C ABI you can just link a bunch of object files together. Rust people are doing it a lot for graphics/game stuff, and there's lots of production MacOS apps mixing ObjC/Swift (because they're transitioning), or consuming C/C++. Of course in this case it's mostly Xcode doing the magic, but behind the scenes it's just calling clang.

hajimemash 6y ago

How have you written backend code in Swift, were you able to use it in places you would normally use e.g. C++? I'm asking because I like Obj-C/Swift, and am wondering if it's possible through some clang/LLVM magic to be able to code Obj-C/Swift in environments that expect C or C++, for example like in Qt. Like, could I have a traditionally C++ app (Qt app) but have most of my code be in another LLVM-compatible language.

julius_set 6y ago
There’s a very vibrant backend community for Swift, Vapor is growing and used in production for a lot of companies. https://vapor.codes https://vapor.codes
ratww 6y ago
> Like, could I have a traditionally C++ app (Qt app) but have most of my code be in another LLVM-compatible language It is possible! I mix Swift and Rust in my day job. I use the C ABI to interface between the two. The Swift layer is very thin and pretty much just a bridge between Rust and Cocoa/UIKit/Metal, but there's nothing stopping you from doing the opposite. If you're going to bridge Swift with Qt, the sanest way is to use Objective-C++ to wrap Qt calls and call it from Swift. However keep in mind that the Swift experience in other Operating Systems might not be as good as in Macs. That's why I went with Rust for this project. But things might have changed in the meantime!
- hajimemash 6y ago
  That sounds really cool. I did some searching to see people's experiences substituting other languages for C++ through LLVM, and didn't find much other than samples of translated calls. Given that there would be a big benefit to this (not having to learn a new language, less manual memory management), are there good reasons this isn't way more common?
  - ratww 6y ago
    I thought it was pretty common? If you use the C ABI you can just link a bunch of object files together. Rust people are doing it a lot for graphics/game stuff, and there's lots of production MacOS apps mixing ObjC/Swift (because they're transitioning), or consuming C/C++. Of course in this case it's mostly Xcode doing the magic, but behind the scenes it's just calling clang.