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I have this discussion nearly daily when talking with Android users. The iPhone is not a modular unit that can be tampered with at all, but despite even being a

I have this discussion nearly daily when talking with Android users. The iPhone is not a modular unit that can be tampered with at all, but despite even being a software developer, I do not actually care about my phone being modular. I want it to work and I want it to work well across the entire platform. Not only does iOS severely limit your options for changing your phone's UX, something a lot of people lament about quite often, but they also have rigorous design-guides that push every developer in the eco-system to have it look the same way. Something as simple as the date/timepickers that Apple removed in iOS 14 can't be changed by the user, but Apple does their hardest to make sure everyone makes it look the way they've set it up, and for my purposes I legitimately prefer that over deciding it myself but having the apps on the platform ultimately use either or willy-nilly. There definitely are issues with Apple, but the user not having full access to changing their device isn't really one, and that's coming from someone who most definitely has the know how to do pretty much anything and still remain safe, I'd dread to see users be stuck having full root access to their phones without even knowing what the fuck that means. There absolutely needs to be options for those that want to be able to hack away at their phone to their hearts content, but it doesn't need to be every phone, and Apple aren't criminals just because they don't offer that possibility and users happen to want their phones anyway. Please don't give me root access to my iPhone, I do not care about it, I have no need for it, and I do not want it.

stale2002 6y ago
> Please don't give me root access to my iPhone, I do not care about it, I have no need for it, and I do not want it Then don't turn on root mode? Nobody will force you to do anything, if I am given the option of easilu turning on root mode, and you can simply choose to not turn that on.
- sixstringtheory 6y ago
  Once root mode is an option it will be exploited. The weakest link in software systems is often a human.
  - lern_too_spel 6y ago
    The number of steps and warnings required to unlock the bootloader on an Android device is so large that I have never heard of anybody being tricked into it. On the other hand, iOS is so rife with rootable vulnerabilities that it's becoming too cheap to meter.
    - judge2020 6y ago
      Replace tricked with lured. Try searching 'free vbucks apk android 6' on youtube then go to page 3 of results or click recently uploaded.
      - lern_too_spel 6y ago
        You cannot unlock your bootloader with an APK. This is the process for unlocking the bootloader: https://www.androidjungles.com/unlock-bootloader-using-fastboot-android https://www.androidjungles.com/unlock-bootloader-using-fastb... No amount of luring is going to make somebody go through that only to have their device data completely wiped as the warning clearly says.
  - spideymans 6y ago
    Follow this tutorial for awesome new wallpapers! Step 1: Open settings > Tap 'enable root mode'
  - greycol 6y ago
    You're not wrong. I also understand the viewpoint stemming from that truth that having the option is not worth the extra features. I still think the trade off is worth it. Just like while we have people tricked into buying apple gift cards for scammers we still don't decide to ban those cards because they do offer utility.
- ratww 6y ago
  > Nobody will force you to do anything My previous bank forced installation of a rootkit in Windows and Mac, and required full permissions in Android just to open. Their website didn't even work in Linux because they didn't make a Rootkit. I didn't really have an option at the time: this was before my government made a law allowing you to use any bank, so I needed the bank to access my salary. I'm all for freedom of fully owning your own device, but the reality is that software developers and software companies will abuse this freedom.
- panragon 6y ago
  I’m all for people wanting rootmode, I just don’t want more freedom and choice on my device, I see no need for it and I like the way Apple can streamline everything by forcing everyone to interact with their device on their terms. And obviously I realize that this doesn’t go for everyone, and that’s completely okay. I just don’t think Apple should be forced to make their phones into full-on computers just because some people say they want the choice, when you could just as easily get a phone. If most customers really wanted to root iPhones Apple would probably have implemented it by now. I don’t believe for a second that Apple’s desire to unilateraly control their ecosystem trumps shareholder greed, why would it? Not all phones are for everyone and I think that’s OK. More options and more modular devices means everyone will setup and use their device differently, like with a computer, this is fine for many, but I think it would adversly affect the streamlined nature of iOS (even if it is ‘just an option’), so I’m still against it.
  - leetcrew 6y ago
    in a vacuum, there's really nothing wrong with apple's choices regarding iOS. as far as I can tell, most iOS users really do appreciate how the whole system is locked down, or at least don't understand why they should care. what sucks is that in the big picture, there's really no viable option for someone who cares about security/privacy and is willing to pay for a premium device, but wants full access to their phone occasionally. the security update situation on android is still a mess except for the pixel line (which usually has subpar hardware) and a handful of other flagship devices. even if you're willing to pony up, you're still buying into an ecosystem that's designed to exfiltrate data from your device. it's frustrating because the iphone is so close to having everything I want from a device. if I could just have the ability to temporarily elevate privileges, even from some obnoxiously buried menu deep in the settings (or bootloader), I would buy one in a heartbeat.
  - stale2002 6y ago
    > I just don’t want more freedom and choice on my device Then don't turn on root mode? Is that really such a large infringement on you? The fact that there might be an option in your phone, to turn on root mode, and the mere fact that this switch exists somehow mind controls you and makes you turn it on? If an easy switch in the phone exists that says "Allow competing app stores to be installed", why can't you simply not switch that on?
- cafed00d 6y ago
  I really think we should rename "root mode" to "DANGER 90000 VOLTS AHEAD" or something similar. Root mode _is_ that dangerous. You wouldn't want to allow astronauts "root access" to their starship launcher; you don't want car drivers to have "root access" to tinker with the brakes in their car. You don't want patients on ventilators to have "root access". You don't want non-doctors to access their health data without a doctor's to walk them through it. Certain pieces of data left to mere mortals can have devastating consequences. It's not a question of "don't turn on root mode". Or saying "don't re-jigger the brakes". People (tech experts or otherwise) should not be allowed to mess with systems that can literally end their life by exploding in their pockets! That's how dangerous it is! Sure, some of the consequences are that you can't tinker with your UI. But honestly, that's a reasonable price to pay because the software that controls the behavior of these systems can cause real-world damage, if not configured properly. Heck, we've seen this in the recent 40 years. The whole freaking Metric vs Imperial system disagreement has caused unintentional rocketship explosions. Imagine, if some inane argument between a couple of high-schoolers or teenagers led to the same type of bug killing them because their phone exploded. All because someone with root access misconfigures a constants plist file to prove a point!
  - stale2002 6y ago
    > should not be allowed to mess with systems that can literally end their life by exploding in their pockets! This is non-sense fearmongering. Giving people the ability to install fortnite, on an official fortnite app store, is not going to cause people to die from phone explosion It is just not going to happen. Fortnite is not going to blow you up. The reason why I know this to be the case, is that half the US smartphone market, allows people to side load APKs, and install fortnite that way, and people aren't being blown up because they had fortnite on their phone.
    - cafed00d 6y ago
      >> should not be allowed to mess with systems that can literally end their life by exploding in their pockets! > This is non-sense fearmongering. I was referring to "Root access"; not the ability to install Fortnite. There's a difference. People have the ability to install Fortnite. Do it through the Apple App Store.
tshaddox 6y ago
> The iPhone is not a modular unit that can be tampered with at all, but despite even being a software developer, I do not actually care about my phone being modular. I want it to work and I want it to work well across the entire platform. I'm precisely in this boat. I enjoy playing with electronics, but I want my microwave to just work. I also enjoy fiddling around with PCs with total freedom, but I want my phone to just work.
- javier2 6y ago
  I am also a developer, I love tinkering, but my router and especially my phone, I want it to just work. I need my phone, if I could tinker with my phone it would be broken half the time!
  - tshaddox 6y ago
    Haha yes, I used to do all the WRT54G stuff and tended to have bugs and an overheated router. I also used to tinker a bunch with jailbroken iPhones and rooted Android phones. I'll never have anything against that, but now I personally want an option that just works!
  - sneak 6y ago
    I love tinkering, too. I found the solution! https://youtu.be/oiY_iKSpWLM https://youtu.be/oiY_iKSpWLM I actually have 3, two iPhones and one Android, and 3 iPads. Once I gave up on private cross-device sync on iOS without iCloud (a bummer, to be sure), I started using the iPads as single-purpose devices instead of wanting every file on every screen all of the time. One is just for hacking (editors/ssh/browser), one is loaded with books and maps, one is for a special project. The phones are split between primary/production, emergency backup (n+1), and hacking/testing/fun. I’ll probably end up with a fourth phone at some point (hacking * two platforms).

stale2002 6y ago

> Please don't give me root access to my iPhone, I do not care about it, I have no need for it, and I do not want it Then don't turn on root mode? Nobody will force you to do anything, if I am given the option of easilu turning on root mode, and you can simply choose to not turn that on.

sixstringtheory 6y ago
Once root mode is an option it will be exploited. The weakest link in software systems is often a human.
- lern_too_spel 6y ago
  The number of steps and warnings required to unlock the bootloader on an Android device is so large that I have never heard of anybody being tricked into it. On the other hand, iOS is so rife with rootable vulnerabilities that it's becoming too cheap to meter.
  - judge2020 6y ago
    Replace tricked with lured. Try searching 'free vbucks apk android 6' on youtube then go to page 3 of results or click recently uploaded.
    - lern_too_spel 6y ago
      You cannot unlock your bootloader with an APK. This is the process for unlocking the bootloader: https://www.androidjungles.com/unlock-bootloader-using-fastboot-android https://www.androidjungles.com/unlock-bootloader-using-fastb... No amount of luring is going to make somebody go through that only to have their device data completely wiped as the warning clearly says.
- spideymans 6y ago
  Follow this tutorial for awesome new wallpapers! Step 1: Open settings > Tap 'enable root mode'
- greycol 6y ago
  You're not wrong. I also understand the viewpoint stemming from that truth that having the option is not worth the extra features. I still think the trade off is worth it. Just like while we have people tricked into buying apple gift cards for scammers we still don't decide to ban those cards because they do offer utility.
ratww 6y ago
> Nobody will force you to do anything My previous bank forced installation of a rootkit in Windows and Mac, and required full permissions in Android just to open. Their website didn't even work in Linux because they didn't make a Rootkit. I didn't really have an option at the time: this was before my government made a law allowing you to use any bank, so I needed the bank to access my salary. I'm all for freedom of fully owning your own device, but the reality is that software developers and software companies will abuse this freedom.
panragon 6y ago
I’m all for people wanting rootmode, I just don’t want more freedom and choice on my device, I see no need for it and I like the way Apple can streamline everything by forcing everyone to interact with their device on their terms. And obviously I realize that this doesn’t go for everyone, and that’s completely okay. I just don’t think Apple should be forced to make their phones into full-on computers just because some people say they want the choice, when you could just as easily get a phone. If most customers really wanted to root iPhones Apple would probably have implemented it by now. I don’t believe for a second that Apple’s desire to unilateraly control their ecosystem trumps shareholder greed, why would it? Not all phones are for everyone and I think that’s OK. More options and more modular devices means everyone will setup and use their device differently, like with a computer, this is fine for many, but I think it would adversly affect the streamlined nature of iOS (even if it is ‘just an option’), so I’m still against it.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  in a vacuum, there's really nothing wrong with apple's choices regarding iOS. as far as I can tell, most iOS users really do appreciate how the whole system is locked down, or at least don't understand why they should care. what sucks is that in the big picture, there's really no viable option for someone who cares about security/privacy and is willing to pay for a premium device, but wants full access to their phone occasionally. the security update situation on android is still a mess except for the pixel line (which usually has subpar hardware) and a handful of other flagship devices. even if you're willing to pony up, you're still buying into an ecosystem that's designed to exfiltrate data from your device. it's frustrating because the iphone is so close to having everything I want from a device. if I could just have the ability to temporarily elevate privileges, even from some obnoxiously buried menu deep in the settings (or bootloader), I would buy one in a heartbeat.
- stale2002 6y ago
  > I just don’t want more freedom and choice on my device Then don't turn on root mode? Is that really such a large infringement on you? The fact that there might be an option in your phone, to turn on root mode, and the mere fact that this switch exists somehow mind controls you and makes you turn it on? If an easy switch in the phone exists that says "Allow competing app stores to be installed", why can't you simply not switch that on?
cafed00d 6y ago
I really think we should rename "root mode" to "DANGER 90000 VOLTS AHEAD" or something similar. Root mode _is_ that dangerous. You wouldn't want to allow astronauts "root access" to their starship launcher; you don't want car drivers to have "root access" to tinker with the brakes in their car. You don't want patients on ventilators to have "root access". You don't want non-doctors to access their health data without a doctor's to walk them through it. Certain pieces of data left to mere mortals can have devastating consequences. It's not a question of "don't turn on root mode". Or saying "don't re-jigger the brakes". People (tech experts or otherwise) should not be allowed to mess with systems that can literally end their life by exploding in their pockets! That's how dangerous it is! Sure, some of the consequences are that you can't tinker with your UI. But honestly, that's a reasonable price to pay because the software that controls the behavior of these systems can cause real-world damage, if not configured properly. Heck, we've seen this in the recent 40 years. The whole freaking Metric vs Imperial system disagreement has caused unintentional rocketship explosions. Imagine, if some inane argument between a couple of high-schoolers or teenagers led to the same type of bug killing them because their phone exploded. All because someone with root access misconfigures a constants plist file to prove a point!
- stale2002 6y ago
  > should not be allowed to mess with systems that can literally end their life by exploding in their pockets! This is non-sense fearmongering. Giving people the ability to install fortnite, on an official fortnite app store, is not going to cause people to die from phone explosion It is just not going to happen. Fortnite is not going to blow you up. The reason why I know this to be the case, is that half the US smartphone market, allows people to side load APKs, and install fortnite that way, and people aren't being blown up because they had fortnite on their phone.
  - cafed00d 6y ago
    >> should not be allowed to mess with systems that can literally end their life by exploding in their pockets! > This is non-sense fearmongering. I was referring to "Root access"; not the ability to install Fortnite. There's a difference. People have the ability to install Fortnite. Do it through the Apple App Store.

tshaddox 6y ago

> The iPhone is not a modular unit that can be tampered with at all, but despite even being a software developer, I do not actually care about my phone being modular. I want it to work and I want it to work well across the entire platform. I'm precisely in this boat. I enjoy playing with electronics, but I want my microwave to just work. I also enjoy fiddling around with PCs with total freedom, but I want my phone to just work.

javier2 6y ago
I am also a developer, I love tinkering, but my router and especially my phone, I want it to just work. I need my phone, if I could tinker with my phone it would be broken half the time!
- tshaddox 6y ago
  Haha yes, I used to do all the WRT54G stuff and tended to have bugs and an overheated router. I also used to tinker a bunch with jailbroken iPhones and rooted Android phones. I'll never have anything against that, but now I personally want an option that just works!
- sneak 6y ago
  I love tinkering, too. I found the solution! https://youtu.be/oiY_iKSpWLM https://youtu.be/oiY_iKSpWLM I actually have 3, two iPhones and one Android, and 3 iPads. Once I gave up on private cross-device sync on iOS without iCloud (a bummer, to be sure), I started using the iPads as single-purpose devices instead of wanting every file on every screen all of the time. One is just for hacking (editors/ssh/browser), one is loaded with books and maps, one is for a special project. The phones are split between primary/production, emergency backup (n+1), and hacking/testing/fun. I’ll probably end up with a fourth phone at some point (hacking * two platforms).