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There’s no discussion to be had when you’re FOR equality and the other side is arguing against it. There’s equality and fairness. The rest is garbage. There’s n

There’s no discussion to be had when you’re FOR equality and the other side is arguing against it. There’s equality and fairness. The rest is garbage. There’s no need to meet in between and compromise. If you compromise with shtty ideas you are gonna get sht on your shirt.

mensetmanusman 6y ago
People will disagree about the definition of equality. Good advice is to spend a reasonable amount of time on defining precisely what is meant by equality. You will likely find you are arguing past each other because your life experience has given you a different definition than someone else. This is more true over internet communication, because most human-human communication is non-verbal, and text compresses this communication to oblivion.
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
>There’s no discussion to be had when you’re FOR equality and the other side is arguing against it. Kind of like how there's a subset of a certain political party that believes fetuses have the same right to life as infants. Or how some people believe someone who comes from a statistically high crime demographic, has $120 in their checking account and face tattoos has the same right to own a gun as someone from a low crime demographic who can take a weekend class, pay $200 and ace an interview with the police chief? My point is that it's not as simple as you are stating it is. Whichever side of an issue you are on the other side believes that they are right and you are wrong and that you are the oppressors. They have good logical reasons to reach this conclusion and if you peel back the logic you get to fundamentally incompatble differences of opinion.
- charlesu 6y ago
  What is a "statistically high crime demographic"? Men? It's men, right? Statistically speaking the vast majority of violent crime is committed by men [0]. [0] https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/42tabledatadecoverviewpdf/table_42_arrests_by_sex_2012.xls https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-...
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    >What is a "statistically high crime demographic"? Young black men This is drilled into the head of every cop before they leave the academy.
    - charlesu 6y ago
      Interesting. According the FBI data in my previous reply, white men are far more likely to be driving drunk, statistically speaking. I guess we should teach cops to pull them over far more often than everyone else, right? That would be a similarly logical conclusion based on the statistics.
      - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
        I'm not sure if you're being intentionally obtuse but I have my suspicions. Blacks are convicted of violent crimes at far higher rates than whites. I will not postulate on how much of that conviction rate is a self fulfilling prophecy on the part of the police (much has been written about this possibility by people far more qualified than me) but the practical effect is that the police do not extend the benefit of the doubt to black people, particularly young black men, nearly as readily as they do for other demographics and this extends to all contexts which is a problem for black men who are trying to exercise a right that (in some jurisdictions) police are the gate keepers of.
  - Spivak 6y ago
    I think it's hilarious that you're downvoted so heavily for this when it's the exact same logic that's used against young black men. If you look at these statics and think to yourself, "the fact that 87% of murders, 99% of forced rapes, and 77% of assaults are committed by men is terribly misleading because as a category it doesn't make sense to lump all men together when they're so different" then why the hell does "black men" make any more sense?
- bitxbit 6y ago
  Sure, “kind of like” how the Nazi Party usurped Germany a hundred years ago. Why don’t you have a civil discourse with people who believe in slavery? Give me a break.
  - dang 6y ago
    Would you please stop posting ideological flamewar comments to HN? You're breaking multiple site guidelines here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- justanotheranon 6y ago
  bacteria on Mars is considered Life. a heartbeat on Earth is considered a clump of cells. the reason the Second American Civil War is inevitable is because the Left and the Right have diverged into 2 separate Universes. We look at the same thing and see completely different realities. And we won't compromise our vision at all to meet in the middle and see the other side's perspective.

mensetmanusman 6y ago

People will disagree about the definition of equality. Good advice is to spend a reasonable amount of time on defining precisely what is meant by equality. You will likely find you are arguing past each other because your life experience has given you a different definition than someone else. This is more true over internet communication, because most human-human communication is non-verbal, and text compresses this communication to oblivion.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

>There’s no discussion to be had when you’re FOR equality and the other side is arguing against it. Kind of like how there's a subset of a certain political party that believes fetuses have the same right to life as infants. Or how some people believe someone who comes from a statistically high crime demographic, has $120 in their checking account and face tattoos has the same right to own a gun as someone from a low crime demographic who can take a weekend class, pay $200 and ace an interview with the police chief? My point is that it's not as simple as you are stating it is. Whichever side of an issue you are on the other side believes that they are right and you are wrong and that you are the oppressors. They have good logical reasons to reach this conclusion and if you peel back the logic you get to fundamentally incompatble differences of opinion.

charlesu 6y ago
What is a "statistically high crime demographic"? Men? It's men, right? Statistically speaking the vast majority of violent crime is committed by men [0]. [0] https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/42tabledatadecoverviewpdf/table_42_arrests_by_sex_2012.xls https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-...
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  >What is a "statistically high crime demographic"? Young black men This is drilled into the head of every cop before they leave the academy.
  - charlesu 6y ago
    Interesting. According the FBI data in my previous reply, white men are far more likely to be driving drunk, statistically speaking. I guess we should teach cops to pull them over far more often than everyone else, right? That would be a similarly logical conclusion based on the statistics.
    - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
      I'm not sure if you're being intentionally obtuse but I have my suspicions. Blacks are convicted of violent crimes at far higher rates than whites. I will not postulate on how much of that conviction rate is a self fulfilling prophecy on the part of the police (much has been written about this possibility by people far more qualified than me) but the practical effect is that the police do not extend the benefit of the doubt to black people, particularly young black men, nearly as readily as they do for other demographics and this extends to all contexts which is a problem for black men who are trying to exercise a right that (in some jurisdictions) police are the gate keepers of.
- Spivak 6y ago
  I think it's hilarious that you're downvoted so heavily for this when it's the exact same logic that's used against young black men. If you look at these statics and think to yourself, "the fact that 87% of murders, 99% of forced rapes, and 77% of assaults are committed by men is terribly misleading because as a category it doesn't make sense to lump all men together when they're so different" then why the hell does "black men" make any more sense?
bitxbit 6y ago
Sure, “kind of like” how the Nazi Party usurped Germany a hundred years ago. Why don’t you have a civil discourse with people who believe in slavery? Give me a break.
- dang 6y ago
  Would you please stop posting ideological flamewar comments to HN? You're breaking multiple site guidelines here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
justanotheranon 6y ago
bacteria on Mars is considered Life. a heartbeat on Earth is considered a clump of cells. the reason the Second American Civil War is inevitable is because the Left and the Right have diverged into 2 separate Universes. We look at the same thing and see completely different realities. And we won't compromise our vision at all to meet in the middle and see the other side's perspective.