6 ms·

Reasonable people can disagree about which features are and are not useful. And those reasonable people can purchase smartphones and computers which best cater

by baddox 6y ago

Reasonable people can disagree about which features are and are not useful. And those reasonable people can purchase smartphones and computers which best cater to their own views about these features.

romanoderoma 6y ago
True, but reasonable people that know about web notifications API are less than 1% of Apple customers...
- baddox 6y ago
  That sounds like a great reason to not let every trashy website in the world to spam them asking if they want to enable notifications.
  - romanoderoma 6y ago
    But is it Apple's call? I mean, removing features of course makes software more secure I argue that disabling JavaScript would only bring great benefits to humanity
    - baddox 6y ago
      If Apple had a dominant market position in smartphones then one could argue that end customers don't have much of a choice, but Apple only has at most 50% market share in the US and much lower globally. For my own smartphone usage I would much rather Apple choosing which features and APIs that third-party developers (of apps and websites) can use rather than those developers being able to do whatever they want. I think it's pretty clear that developers tends to have a much more hostile relationship with their end users than Apple does with their customers.
      - romanoderoma 6y ago
        The argument is not about market domination, but about money power Apple market is rich, it is the richest tech company, with the highest market valuation ever, one cannot avoid it So it's gonna drive adoption no matter what Like it did for Flash (right or wrong, they did it) I was writing web applications during the 90s, they were called intranets back then, IE wasn't bad, it was simply unavoidable And being unavoidable halted competition for more than a decade On another side: having a platform that doesn't obey to common standards creates tech segregation I remember seeing japanes phones 20 years ago, they were ahead of time,but unusable outside of Japan Last but not least, having a flag that says "allow me to shoot myself in the foot of I want to" it's less hostile than "you don't know what you're doing let me handle it for you"
        tekknik 6y ago
        So then write for all browsers, support what you can for each, and don’t promote Chrome anymore? If you continue to promote a one size fits all browser and the market moves that way then we’ll shortly be having this same discussion about Google. If you were writing websites in the 90s you should know this.
        romanoderoma 6y ago
        > So then write for all browsers, support what you can for each, and don’t promote Chrome anymore? WOW That escalated quickly I never promoted Chrome, in fact I'm an old time Firefox users and in the 90s I owned a Netscape 3 gold license. I don't write fronted software anymore, but writing for every browser means adhering to the standard Apple has steered away more than any other vendor lately So...
        tekknik 6y ago
        > I don't write fronted software anymore, but writing for every browser means adhering to the standard. Yes, which you’ll find if you do Safari adheres to quite well. Finding examples where it doesn’t is easy, just like on chrome. Which is why we have media queries and poly fills because it’s simply impossible to have a unified platform without one entity owning it. If you found out Chrome doesn’t render the same on linux as it doesn’t on windows, would you call this not adhering to the standard?
    - tekknik 6y ago
      > But is it Apple's call? Yes, just like you’re free to never visit an annoying website asking to spam notifications you’re free to take away Apple’s decision making power you grant them by simply not buying an iphone.
      - romanoderoma 6y ago
        > you’re free to take away Apple’s decision making power you grant them by simply not buying an iphone. That's a very common argument But it doesn't get any less stupid with time. I never owned an iPhone. Because I am an adult homo sapiens that can take decisions for himself. But you should know that if a standard exists, and the standard has been approved by a consortium, a consortium where Apple is a very important member, they should at least support what they signed for, instead of forcing developers to go through hoops just to support their platform. When Elon Musk make Teslas he has to put airbags in them, stop lights, front lights, safety belts, they must pass crash tests, because that's the standard, otherwise he couldn't sell them as cars. So if Apple believe that the standard that they approved is too dangerous, they can make their OS more secure, instead of putting the blame on developers.
        tekknik 6y ago
        Developers are not jumping through hoops to support their platform. I’m a full stack dev, I understand what it takes to support safari and a majority of the time is actually Chrome being fast and loose with the standard, not Apple. Is it a partial implementation, sure. But the features lacking don’t stop meaningful work at all. Just like hearing my statement is old, so is yours.
        romanoderoma 6y ago
        > Developers are not jumping through hoops to support their platform They are > I’m a full stack dev, I understand what it takes to support safari and a majority of the time is actually Chrome being fast and loose with the standard I am as well, I understand a closed platform when I see one. > But the features lacking don’t stop meaningful work at all. If only it was true... It' s not lacking, it has been removed on purpose. The web engine Safari is built from already supports those features.

by baddox 6y ago

romanoderoma 6y ago

True, but reasonable people that know about web notifications API are less than 1% of Apple customers...

baddox 6y ago
That sounds like a great reason to not let every trashy website in the world to spam them asking if they want to enable notifications.
- romanoderoma 6y ago
  But is it Apple's call? I mean, removing features of course makes software more secure I argue that disabling JavaScript would only bring great benefits to humanity
  - baddox 6y ago
    If Apple had a dominant market position in smartphones then one could argue that end customers don't have much of a choice, but Apple only has at most 50% market share in the US and much lower globally. For my own smartphone usage I would much rather Apple choosing which features and APIs that third-party developers (of apps and websites) can use rather than those developers being able to do whatever they want. I think it's pretty clear that developers tends to have a much more hostile relationship with their end users than Apple does with their customers.
    - romanoderoma 6y ago
      The argument is not about market domination, but about money power Apple market is rich, it is the richest tech company, with the highest market valuation ever, one cannot avoid it So it's gonna drive adoption no matter what Like it did for Flash (right or wrong, they did it) I was writing web applications during the 90s, they were called intranets back then, IE wasn't bad, it was simply unavoidable And being unavoidable halted competition for more than a decade On another side: having a platform that doesn't obey to common standards creates tech segregation I remember seeing japanes phones 20 years ago, they were ahead of time,but unusable outside of Japan Last but not least, having a flag that says "allow me to shoot myself in the foot of I want to" it's less hostile than "you don't know what you're doing let me handle it for you"
      - tekknik 6y ago
        So then write for all browsers, support what you can for each, and don’t promote Chrome anymore? If you continue to promote a one size fits all browser and the market moves that way then we’ll shortly be having this same discussion about Google. If you were writing websites in the 90s you should know this.
        romanoderoma 6y ago
        > So then write for all browsers, support what you can for each, and don’t promote Chrome anymore? WOW That escalated quickly I never promoted Chrome, in fact I'm an old time Firefox users and in the 90s I owned a Netscape 3 gold license. I don't write fronted software anymore, but writing for every browser means adhering to the standard Apple has steered away more than any other vendor lately So...
        tekknik 6y ago
        > I don't write fronted software anymore, but writing for every browser means adhering to the standard. Yes, which you’ll find if you do Safari adheres to quite well. Finding examples where it doesn’t is easy, just like on chrome. Which is why we have media queries and poly fills because it’s simply impossible to have a unified platform without one entity owning it. If you found out Chrome doesn’t render the same on linux as it doesn’t on windows, would you call this not adhering to the standard?
  - tekknik 6y ago
    > But is it Apple's call? Yes, just like you’re free to never visit an annoying website asking to spam notifications you’re free to take away Apple’s decision making power you grant them by simply not buying an iphone.
    - romanoderoma 6y ago
      > you’re free to take away Apple’s decision making power you grant them by simply not buying an iphone. That's a very common argument But it doesn't get any less stupid with time. I never owned an iPhone. Because I am an adult homo sapiens that can take decisions for himself. But you should know that if a standard exists, and the standard has been approved by a consortium, a consortium where Apple is a very important member, they should at least support what they signed for, instead of forcing developers to go through hoops just to support their platform. When Elon Musk make Teslas he has to put airbags in them, stop lights, front lights, safety belts, they must pass crash tests, because that's the standard, otherwise he couldn't sell them as cars. So if Apple believe that the standard that they approved is too dangerous, they can make their OS more secure, instead of putting the blame on developers.
      - tekknik 6y ago
        Developers are not jumping through hoops to support their platform. I’m a full stack dev, I understand what it takes to support safari and a majority of the time is actually Chrome being fast and loose with the standard, not Apple. Is it a partial implementation, sure. But the features lacking don’t stop meaningful work at all. Just like hearing my statement is old, so is yours.
        romanoderoma 6y ago
        > Developers are not jumping through hoops to support their platform They are > I’m a full stack dev, I understand what it takes to support safari and a majority of the time is actually Chrome being fast and loose with the standard I am as well, I understand a closed platform when I see one. > But the features lacking don’t stop meaningful work at all. If only it was true... It' s not lacking, it has been removed on purpose. The web engine Safari is built from already supports those features.