7 ms·

Touch based WP7 programing environment and language by Microsoft Research

67 points by lukencode 15y ago

underwater 15y ago
Duck Duck Go gets a bit of love in the sample applications. There is a sample app that talks to their API. Interesting to see how they've shoehorned an editor into the touch screen interface. As an end user its nice to have a little more control over my device.
jmah 15y ago
Might someone with a WP7 phone be kind enough to make a video of this? I'm super curious.
6ren 15y ago
It's nice that it has built-in touch and cloud support, and it's nice that you can code on-the-unit, using the touch interface. But it seems even less visual than existing visual languages (they are mostly academic/teaching experimnts; I don't mean "V"B - though its form creator comes close). Could there be an entirely different approach to programming, built around the touch-screen from the ground up? Using its strengths (e.g. analog 2D input) and skipping its weaknesses (e.g. no digital symbols from keystrokes) - instead of trying to cram the old ideas into the new? Let it grow in its own way, I say. A starting point might be visual form creation; lines for bindings, for transitions, for calls; multiple fingers for looping. Or, perhaps even better, to be like the diagrams we sketch to represent coding ideas! Instead of adapting our most natural and intuitive expression (diagrams) to coding in text, why not work directly with diagrams, now that we finally have the appropriate tools? Diagrams aren't suitable for all coding tasks, but I recommend fitting a technology to the tasks where it naturally excels. disclaimer I haven't played with the tech (no WP7), just going by the webpage. Lest I offend with my ridiculously idealistic demands (who of us has created a fundamentally new approach to coding? Not I), this really shows that MS is pro-developer (while apple is pro-consumer) - and just starting to use multi-touch as a programming fundamental is the most important step in this quest.
- mks 15y ago
  I am visual programming skeptic (or better said pragmatic). I've seen quite a few visual environments where at the end of the day (once you've learned the language) it was faster to switch to text mode. Visual programming was great for learning the language though. The main problem visual programming encounters is the sheer number of options you have when you are entering code in text form. Just consider that on almost any new line in code you can type in control structure, variable declaration, assignment, function/method call etc. And it is almost always faster to type "if" or "for" than to click through some decision tree to get to your required command. In touchqode we try to overcome this limitation using prefix tree when showing code suggestions - e.g. when you have methods showTime(), showDate() and showLocation() you can type "s", press "tab" and you see longest common prefixes of methods starting "s" - so you would see "show". Then you can click it and see the actual method names. Needless to say - templates for structured commands (e.g. "if") are probably necessary for programming on mobile devices. I have few experimental features for touch programming in my mind, so I hope I'll get to implementing them sooner than later. If anyone has interesting ideas I'll be glad to discuss them.
  - 6ren 15y ago
    I agree; yet I do think that there likely are a subset of coding tasks that are suitable for a visual approach (esp if a multi-touch screen gives other benefits, specific to that task). The only thing missing is knowing what those tasks are... 1) a way to address the choice explosion is (highly) domain specific languages, with limited choices. I guess this would be closer to scripting/macros than true programming, but still useful. 2) could the number of options be constrained in some other way? Or, perhaps chosen in a way that's more intuitive to touch - such as pointing to a graphical representation (of something that naturally has a graphical representation). OTOH, while good for nouns, less good for verbs. What about gestures for verbs (like sign language)? Maybe not for the specific choice, but to narrow it down to a family of choices? 3) and the bizarre idea of using the strength of multi-touch to make choices - like a chording keyboard (eg). Is a keyboard really intrinsically better for coding than pen and paper? (maybe - there's linguistic power in symbols lacking in pictures). BTW: A prefix tree is useful, but not specialized to multi-touch...
mks 15y ago
It has some nice UI ideas - I particularly like the idea of calculator-like editor. Environments with limited text input ability get significant advantage from staticaly (or at least strong) typed languages - code autocomplete is really killer weapon when editing text. As a sidenote something similar can be achieved on Android phones using Touchqode [1] and Scripting Layer For Android [2]. It does not have specific language but you can use any of its supported languages - Python, Ruby, BeanShell (Java), Rhino (JavaScript) Disclaimer: I work on touchqode [1] http://www.touchqode.com http://www.touchqode.com [2] http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/ http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/
abtinf 15y ago
This probably dates me and marks me as unhip but.. When I first read the headline, I thought "Why would anyone add a touch interface to WordPerfect 7?"
pavlov 15y ago
The editing UI with the keywords as a calculator-style interface in the bottom half of the screen is an interesting '80s flashback. It reminds me of LucasArts-style adventure games with a grid of action verbs below the game view. Also, those home computer keyboards where each key had both an alphabet and a BASIC keyword printed on it: http://ewyse.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/acornelectron_top.jpeg http://ewyse.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/acornelectron_top.j... That was a pretty clever way to make the programming language quick reference available at a glance.
zdw 15y ago
First thought: Wow, the syntax looks like AppleScript. Looks quite compelling though - hopefully they'll tie in the PIM and GPS features - imagine being able to ask you phone how long you spent physically at work during the week, or who are the top 5 people you emailed in the last month.
josch 15y ago
it's probably not there yet: http://www.ycombinator.com/rfs5.html http://www.ycombinator.com/rfs5.html

67 points by lukencode 15y ago

Duck Duck Go gets a bit of love in the sample applications. There is a sample app that talks to their API. Interesting to see how they've shoehorned an editor into the touch screen interface. As an end user its nice to have a little more control over my device.

jmah 15y ago

Might someone with a WP7 phone be kind enough to make a video of this? I'm super curious.

6ren 15y ago

It's nice that it has built-in touch and cloud support, and it's nice that you can code on-the-unit, using the touch interface. But it seems even less visual than existing visual languages (they are mostly academic/teaching experimnts; I don't mean "V"B - though its form creator comes close). Could there be an entirely different approach to programming, built around the touch-screen from the ground up? Using its strengths (e.g. analog 2D input) and skipping its weaknesses (e.g. no digital symbols from keystrokes) - instead of trying to cram the old ideas into the new? Let it grow in its own way, I say. A starting point might be visual form creation; lines for bindings, for transitions, for calls; multiple fingers for looping. Or, perhaps even better, to be like the diagrams we sketch to represent coding ideas! Instead of adapting our most natural and intuitive expression (diagrams) to coding in text, why not work directly with diagrams, now that we finally have the appropriate tools? Diagrams aren't suitable for all coding tasks, but I recommend fitting a technology to the tasks where it naturally excels. disclaimer I haven't played with the tech (no WP7), just going by the webpage. Lest I offend with my ridiculously idealistic demands (who of us has created a fundamentally new approach to coding? Not I), this really shows that MS is pro-developer (while apple is pro-consumer) - and just starting to use multi-touch as a programming fundamental is the most important step in this quest.

mks 15y ago
I am visual programming skeptic (or better said pragmatic). I've seen quite a few visual environments where at the end of the day (once you've learned the language) it was faster to switch to text mode. Visual programming was great for learning the language though. The main problem visual programming encounters is the sheer number of options you have when you are entering code in text form. Just consider that on almost any new line in code you can type in control structure, variable declaration, assignment, function/method call etc. And it is almost always faster to type "if" or "for" than to click through some decision tree to get to your required command. In touchqode we try to overcome this limitation using prefix tree when showing code suggestions - e.g. when you have methods showTime(), showDate() and showLocation() you can type "s", press "tab" and you see longest common prefixes of methods starting "s" - so you would see "show". Then you can click it and see the actual method names. Needless to say - templates for structured commands (e.g. "if") are probably necessary for programming on mobile devices. I have few experimental features for touch programming in my mind, so I hope I'll get to implementing them sooner than later. If anyone has interesting ideas I'll be glad to discuss them.
- 6ren 15y ago
  I agree; yet I do think that there likely are a subset of coding tasks that are suitable for a visual approach (esp if a multi-touch screen gives other benefits, specific to that task). The only thing missing is knowing what those tasks are... 1) a way to address the choice explosion is (highly) domain specific languages, with limited choices. I guess this would be closer to scripting/macros than true programming, but still useful. 2) could the number of options be constrained in some other way? Or, perhaps chosen in a way that's more intuitive to touch - such as pointing to a graphical representation (of something that naturally has a graphical representation). OTOH, while good for nouns, less good for verbs. What about gestures for verbs (like sign language)? Maybe not for the specific choice, but to narrow it down to a family of choices? 3) and the bizarre idea of using the strength of multi-touch to make choices - like a chording keyboard (eg). Is a keyboard really intrinsically better for coding than pen and paper? (maybe - there's linguistic power in symbols lacking in pictures). BTW: A prefix tree is useful, but not specialized to multi-touch...

mks 15y ago

It has some nice UI ideas - I particularly like the idea of calculator-like editor. Environments with limited text input ability get significant advantage from staticaly (or at least strong) typed languages - code autocomplete is really killer weapon when editing text. As a sidenote something similar can be achieved on Android phones using Touchqode [1] and Scripting Layer For Android [2]. It does not have specific language but you can use any of its supported languages - Python, Ruby, BeanShell (Java), Rhino (JavaScript) Disclaimer: I work on touchqode [1] http://www.touchqode.com http://www.touchqode.com [2] http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/ http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/

abtinf 15y ago

This probably dates me and marks me as unhip but.. When I first read the headline, I thought "Why would anyone add a touch interface to WordPerfect 7?"

pavlov 15y ago

The editing UI with the keywords as a calculator-style interface in the bottom half of the screen is an interesting '80s flashback. It reminds me of LucasArts-style adventure games with a grid of action verbs below the game view. Also, those home computer keyboards where each key had both an alphabet and a BASIC keyword printed on it: http://ewyse.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/acornelectron_top.jpeg http://ewyse.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/acornelectron_top.j... That was a pretty clever way to make the programming language quick reference available at a glance.

zdw 15y ago

First thought: Wow, the syntax looks like AppleScript. Looks quite compelling though - hopefully they'll tie in the PIM and GPS features - imagine being able to ask you phone how long you spent physically at work during the week, or who are the top 5 people you emailed in the last month.

josch 15y ago

it's probably not there yet: http://www.ycombinator.com/rfs5.html http://www.ycombinator.com/rfs5.html