11 ms·

It's fascinating how the subsistence wage is simultaneously too low for workers and too high corporations.

ipnon 6y ago
Why is that? It's because neither the government nor corporations are required to provide a basic quality of life to Americans.
rrrrrrrrrrrryan 6y ago
It's because people can't afford the true cost of a rideshare if a driver needs to make subsistence wage, and the company needs to be profitable. In a difference landscape the Uber model might be sustainable, but the middle class is being completely gutted. California especially is headed toward a Hawaii-esque bifurcated economy, comprised of a wealthy minority and a massive underclass of service-industry people catering toward their every want and need.
- fumar 6y ago
  Is that future different in any other of the top 5 states in the US? What can be done about it?
  - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 6y ago
    Robust social safety nets, combined with increased access to education so unskilled workers can retool to partake in the 21st century global service economy, financed by massive pigouvian taxes on our carbon consumption, and an appropriately progressive tax structure (the latest studies suggest the optimal tax rate according to the Laffer curve for billionaires is somewhere around 73%).
umvi 6y ago
Imagine creating an app called "Clean Streets" - basically people can put bounties on streets, other people can collect the bounty by picking up the litter. Sounds like a great little idea right? The app takes a 1% fee for server upkeep. Win/win, bored teenagers make some extra money and your neighborhood gets cleaned up... right? Wrong. Turns out, people aren't willing to pay that much for people to clean up their streets - only $1-5 on average per job. Yet it takes an hour to clean the street sometimes. That is an abysmal hourly wage, how can you expect desperate impoverished single mothers trying to work 3 jobs to live off of this?? Clean Streets ought to give a living wage and full health benefits to anyone who signs up. Oh, except... just one problem... the 1% transaction fee isn't enough to fund that, and jacking up pricing just means people stop using the app altogether. So yes, in theory this app is great - if you can restrict its use to only non-desperate people. But desperate people would nevertheless try to make a living on it, and you would get lambasted by human rights activists for exploiting the poor. Sigh, I wish there were a way for things like this to exist.
- riffic 6y ago
  I've been kicking around the idea of a New Urbanist business model generator, which would spit out ideas from keyword lists like "gamification blockchain micropayments 311 litter reporting cleanup" et cetera. I'm sure there are a whole bunch of businesses out there that can be created based on applying civic principles to disruptive capitalist exploitation models edit: please don't ever ask me the related dystopian business model generator.
- shizcakes 6y ago
  In this particular, specific case - there are. They are called taxes, and in most urban areas, they fund regular street sweeping.
  - OCASM 6y ago
    Or fines for people who litter. An improvement that actually punishes the people who caused the problem and not those who did nothing wrong.
- mike00632 6y ago
  Ummmmm, Uber and Lyft take a lot more than 1% from drivers. And Uber drivers are typically the polar opposite of bored teenagers. They are dedicated adults trying to make driving their profession.
  - umvi 6y ago
    > And Uber drivers are typically the polar opposite of bored teenagers. They are dedicated adults trying to make driving their profession Right, but were they the original target demographic? Just because a platform gets commandeered by desperate people doesn't mean the platform was originally designed to support them.
    - mike00632 6y ago
      Is the intent most important here or is it who the workers actually are? The fact is that Uber and Lyft employ people in the way you typically think of (and in the way that the law thinks of). These aren't children driving around for spare cash. Uber even has financing options to help drivers buy cars specifically for this job. What type of person buys an entire car to accomplish side hustle or to dally around? The fact that Uber accomodates such a large investment into being a driver speaks towards what their "target demographic" is.

Why is that? It's because neither the government nor corporations are required to provide a basic quality of life to Americans.

rrrrrrrrrrrryan 6y ago

It's because people can't afford the true cost of a rideshare if a driver needs to make subsistence wage, and the company needs to be profitable. In a difference landscape the Uber model might be sustainable, but the middle class is being completely gutted. California especially is headed toward a Hawaii-esque bifurcated economy, comprised of a wealthy minority and a massive underclass of service-industry people catering toward their every want and need.

fumar 6y ago
Is that future different in any other of the top 5 states in the US? What can be done about it?
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 6y ago
  Robust social safety nets, combined with increased access to education so unskilled workers can retool to partake in the 21st century global service economy, financed by massive pigouvian taxes on our carbon consumption, and an appropriately progressive tax structure (the latest studies suggest the optimal tax rate according to the Laffer curve for billionaires is somewhere around 73%).

umvi 6y ago

Imagine creating an app called "Clean Streets" - basically people can put bounties on streets, other people can collect the bounty by picking up the litter. Sounds like a great little idea right? The app takes a 1% fee for server upkeep. Win/win, bored teenagers make some extra money and your neighborhood gets cleaned up... right? Wrong. Turns out, people aren't willing to pay that much for people to clean up their streets - only $1-5 on average per job. Yet it takes an hour to clean the street sometimes. That is an abysmal hourly wage, how can you expect desperate impoverished single mothers trying to work 3 jobs to live off of this?? Clean Streets ought to give a living wage and full health benefits to anyone who signs up. Oh, except... just one problem... the 1% transaction fee isn't enough to fund that, and jacking up pricing just means people stop using the app altogether. So yes, in theory this app is great - if you can restrict its use to only non-desperate people. But desperate people would nevertheless try to make a living on it, and you would get lambasted by human rights activists for exploiting the poor. Sigh, I wish there were a way for things like this to exist.

riffic 6y ago
I've been kicking around the idea of a New Urbanist business model generator, which would spit out ideas from keyword lists like "gamification blockchain micropayments 311 litter reporting cleanup" et cetera. I'm sure there are a whole bunch of businesses out there that can be created based on applying civic principles to disruptive capitalist exploitation models edit: please don't ever ask me the related dystopian business model generator.
shizcakes 6y ago
In this particular, specific case - there are. They are called taxes, and in most urban areas, they fund regular street sweeping.
- OCASM 6y ago
  Or fines for people who litter. An improvement that actually punishes the people who caused the problem and not those who did nothing wrong.
mike00632 6y ago
Ummmmm, Uber and Lyft take a lot more than 1% from drivers. And Uber drivers are typically the polar opposite of bored teenagers. They are dedicated adults trying to make driving their profession.
- umvi 6y ago
  > And Uber drivers are typically the polar opposite of bored teenagers. They are dedicated adults trying to make driving their profession Right, but were they the original target demographic? Just because a platform gets commandeered by desperate people doesn't mean the platform was originally designed to support them.
  - mike00632 6y ago
    Is the intent most important here or is it who the workers actually are? The fact is that Uber and Lyft employ people in the way you typically think of (and in the way that the law thinks of). These aren't children driving around for spare cash. Uber even has financing options to help drivers buy cars specifically for this job. What type of person buys an entire car to accomplish side hustle or to dally around? The fact that Uber accomodates such a large investment into being a driver speaks towards what their "target demographic" is.