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Yes, and therefore the retailer is incentivised not to sell junk in the first place. The problem with being an "everything store" is that everything also inclu

Yes, and therefore the retailer is incentivised not to sell junk in the first place. The problem with being an "everything store" is that everything also includes an overwhelming majority of crap, looking at you crappy "genuine sony" camera batteries that held about 10 minutes of charge, fulfilled by amazon.

throwanem 6y ago
Yeah, no, you got lucky with that - I found out Amazon can't be trusted with high-ticket items by getting a $1200 lens that turned out to be gray market. Works fine, but I better hope I never need warranty service. Amazon can't be trusted with high-ticket items, including but not limited to camera equipment. Go to B&H or Adorama, or Newegg or Micro Center for high-ticket computer parts (cf. the recent spate of GPU scams), or the like. And - preferably to any of those options - support your local small retailer, if any.
- ikeboy 6y ago
  Every retailer you mentioned deals in grey market products. Here's B&H proudly admitting to it: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/find/HelpCenter/USGrey.jsp https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/find/HelpCenter/USGrey.jsp
  - acomjean 6y ago
    You can buy gray market, and save a few dollars. It’s different when you buy and get grey market unexpectedly.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    > For IMP items only, B&H provides a warranty identical to the provisions and limitations of the manufacturer's warranty for such items, with the exception of the time period, which is equal to the term of the manufacturer's warranty or one (1) year, whichever is less.* Your dated B&H sales receipt is all you need to obtain warranty coverage from B&H for a "grey market" product purchased from us. This is not typically the case if you get a grey market lens on Amazon. It's also something you'll be told on the listing.
    - ikeboy 6y ago
      Amazon should accept returns if warranty coverage is denied. I can point to Amazon's policy saying that warranty must apply if you want (it's by condition guidelines.)
      - toomuchtodo 6y ago
        I highly recommend using a credit card with generous warranty coverage when purchasing anything of significant value from Amazon. My go to is an American Express Platinum charge card, but there are other cards with a lower annual fee (or none at all) that provide similar benefits.
  - throwanem 6y ago
    B&H is honest about it. The problem I have with Amazon is that they aren't. Based on price and representation, the lens I bought was indistinguishable from a US-market unit right up until I took it out of the box and checked the serial number. To be clear, I suspect error and not malfeasance on Amazon's part. But I don't really care which it is, either.
    - EricE 6y ago
      Yup - B&H gives you the choice of whether you want to trade off price for potential issues down the road. With Amazon you may get zonked and have no way of knowing until after the fact. And seeing the other comments about Newegg, that's disappointing too. Luckily I live near more than a few Microcenters - but finding reliable, trustworthy electronics retailers is becoming harder and harder.
      - throwanem 6y ago
        That's honestly most of the reason I still go to the store, and all of why I'll go out of my way to buy there even for stuff I could probably get elsewhere for a little less. Micro Center is the last of the old breed of computer stores, where you could expect to go and find a strong product selection and generally knowledgeable people - I can't remember the last time I've gone anywhere else and found the sales staff able to usefully consult and advise on complex questions; by contrast, I've learned through experience that I can go into my local Micro Center with nothing but a problem description and come out with a solution that will work. I want that to go on being the case for a long time; after all, I'm not getting any younger nor are days getting any longer, and having kids around who are, by all I can tell, well paid and fairly treated precisely to develop and apply knowledge I don't have the time or honestly the desire to obtain for myself - that's something I'm not just willing, but happy, to support.
  - astura 6y ago
    Which is fine... There's nothing wrong with buying grey market products as long as that's what you know you're buying.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    Most people are fine with gray market if: 1. It's explicit 2. There is a discount The worst possible outcome is paying legitimate prices and receiving a gray market item.
- concernedctzn 6y ago
  Didn't newegg get bought a while ago and allows the same knockoffs in their market? I'm honestly not sure where to turn these days
  - throwanem 6y ago
    I haven't had trouble with Newegg, but I think the last thing I bought there was a RAID controller, and that's been a year or two ago now. Mostly I prefer Micro Center these days, and mostly that's just because they opened a local store so I can just go there. That said, I've never had problems with gray market or counterfeit stuff ordering from Micro Center online, so if you're uncomfortable with Newegg and Micro Center can ship to where you are, they're who I would first recommend.
  - acranox 6y ago
    I think Newegg is still okay if you limit to buying stuff from Newegg as the seller. Their marketplace is definitely full of junk.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      Newegg commingles inventory so you don’t know whose inventory you will be buying from. See section 4.1: https://promotions.newegg.com/marketplace/PDF/SBNTermsAndConditions_USA_en-us_V2.0.pdf https://promotions.newegg.com/marketplace/PDF/SBNTermsAndCon...
      - Fej 6y ago
        When did they add this? No reason to shop there anymore. Micro Center and B&H have been great.
        phone8675309 6y ago
        Micro Center is nice if you live near one. The closest one to me is about an hour and a half away and the city I live in has no other computer parts stores. The mom and pop shops are all repair shops, so if I need, say, a new video card or want to buy a new processor I have to order it online, get lucky with Best Buy randomly having it in stock, it or drive the hour and a half to Micro Center.
- beardbound 6y ago
  I completely agree. For all of my big ticket items (e.g. bluetooth headphones, computer parts, phones, recording equipment) I go through places I trust. I end up doing a lot of shopping at Best Buy of all places again. For computer parts I mostly do Newegg and I do Sweetwater or Guitar Center for music stuff. I do still use Amazon for some stuff, but it tends to be connectors/converters and a couple of companies that have dedicated Amazon stores like Anker. I wouldn't trust something large like a TV to Amazon anymore, or something where counterfeiting is an issue like name brand clothes. Most of the more boutique places I shop at use Shopify anyways so it's still pretty convenient.
- thecreamedcorn 6y ago
  I bought a GPU off Amazon not too long ago. It had driver problems and they let me return it no questions asked, full refund and they covered shipping cost. I've never heard of anyone having issues with Amazon returns, and I've certainly never had issues with it myself.
ptero 6y ago
> therefore the retailer is incentivised not to sell junk in the first place. Most retailers seldom care, as they have agreements and well established paths to dump the cost of returns onto the manufacturer.
- sukilot 6y ago
  Only because they only sell products with a legitimate manufacturer, which is the point.
slowmovintarget 6y ago
There's no escaping Sturgeon's Law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law
- OscarTheGrinch 6y ago
  Hey thanks for that. I had no idea that this insight, obvious to any low level curmudgeon, had been codified into a law. Now kindly stop playing your music so loud and get off my lawn.

throwanem 6y ago

Yeah, no, you got lucky with that - I found out Amazon can't be trusted with high-ticket items by getting a $1200 lens that turned out to be gray market. Works fine, but I better hope I never need warranty service. Amazon can't be trusted with high-ticket items, including but not limited to camera equipment. Go to B&H or Adorama, or Newegg or Micro Center for high-ticket computer parts (cf. the recent spate of GPU scams), or the like. And - preferably to any of those options - support your local small retailer, if any.

ikeboy 6y ago
Every retailer you mentioned deals in grey market products. Here's B&H proudly admitting to it: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/find/HelpCenter/USGrey.jsp https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/find/HelpCenter/USGrey.jsp
- acomjean 6y ago
  You can buy gray market, and save a few dollars. It’s different when you buy and get grey market unexpectedly.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  > For IMP items only, B&H provides a warranty identical to the provisions and limitations of the manufacturer's warranty for such items, with the exception of the time period, which is equal to the term of the manufacturer's warranty or one (1) year, whichever is less.* Your dated B&H sales receipt is all you need to obtain warranty coverage from B&H for a "grey market" product purchased from us. This is not typically the case if you get a grey market lens on Amazon. It's also something you'll be told on the listing.
  - ikeboy 6y ago
    Amazon should accept returns if warranty coverage is denied. I can point to Amazon's policy saying that warranty must apply if you want (it's by condition guidelines.)
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      I highly recommend using a credit card with generous warranty coverage when purchasing anything of significant value from Amazon. My go to is an American Express Platinum charge card, but there are other cards with a lower annual fee (or none at all) that provide similar benefits.
- throwanem 6y ago
  B&H is honest about it. The problem I have with Amazon is that they aren't. Based on price and representation, the lens I bought was indistinguishable from a US-market unit right up until I took it out of the box and checked the serial number. To be clear, I suspect error and not malfeasance on Amazon's part. But I don't really care which it is, either.
  - EricE 6y ago
    Yup - B&H gives you the choice of whether you want to trade off price for potential issues down the road. With Amazon you may get zonked and have no way of knowing until after the fact. And seeing the other comments about Newegg, that's disappointing too. Luckily I live near more than a few Microcenters - but finding reliable, trustworthy electronics retailers is becoming harder and harder.
    - throwanem 6y ago
      That's honestly most of the reason I still go to the store, and all of why I'll go out of my way to buy there even for stuff I could probably get elsewhere for a little less. Micro Center is the last of the old breed of computer stores, where you could expect to go and find a strong product selection and generally knowledgeable people - I can't remember the last time I've gone anywhere else and found the sales staff able to usefully consult and advise on complex questions; by contrast, I've learned through experience that I can go into my local Micro Center with nothing but a problem description and come out with a solution that will work. I want that to go on being the case for a long time; after all, I'm not getting any younger nor are days getting any longer, and having kids around who are, by all I can tell, well paid and fairly treated precisely to develop and apply knowledge I don't have the time or honestly the desire to obtain for myself - that's something I'm not just willing, but happy, to support.
- astura 6y ago
  Which is fine... There's nothing wrong with buying grey market products as long as that's what you know you're buying.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  Most people are fine with gray market if: 1. It's explicit 2. There is a discount The worst possible outcome is paying legitimate prices and receiving a gray market item.
concernedctzn 6y ago
Didn't newegg get bought a while ago and allows the same knockoffs in their market? I'm honestly not sure where to turn these days
- throwanem 6y ago
  I haven't had trouble with Newegg, but I think the last thing I bought there was a RAID controller, and that's been a year or two ago now. Mostly I prefer Micro Center these days, and mostly that's just because they opened a local store so I can just go there. That said, I've never had problems with gray market or counterfeit stuff ordering from Micro Center online, so if you're uncomfortable with Newegg and Micro Center can ship to where you are, they're who I would first recommend.
- acranox 6y ago
  I think Newegg is still okay if you limit to buying stuff from Newegg as the seller. Their marketplace is definitely full of junk.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    Newegg commingles inventory so you don’t know whose inventory you will be buying from. See section 4.1: https://promotions.newegg.com/marketplace/PDF/SBNTermsAndConditions_USA_en-us_V2.0.pdf https://promotions.newegg.com/marketplace/PDF/SBNTermsAndCon...
    - Fej 6y ago
      When did they add this? No reason to shop there anymore. Micro Center and B&H have been great.
      - phone8675309 6y ago
        Micro Center is nice if you live near one. The closest one to me is about an hour and a half away and the city I live in has no other computer parts stores. The mom and pop shops are all repair shops, so if I need, say, a new video card or want to buy a new processor I have to order it online, get lucky with Best Buy randomly having it in stock, it or drive the hour and a half to Micro Center.
beardbound 6y ago
I completely agree. For all of my big ticket items (e.g. bluetooth headphones, computer parts, phones, recording equipment) I go through places I trust. I end up doing a lot of shopping at Best Buy of all places again. For computer parts I mostly do Newegg and I do Sweetwater or Guitar Center for music stuff. I do still use Amazon for some stuff, but it tends to be connectors/converters and a couple of companies that have dedicated Amazon stores like Anker. I wouldn't trust something large like a TV to Amazon anymore, or something where counterfeiting is an issue like name brand clothes. Most of the more boutique places I shop at use Shopify anyways so it's still pretty convenient.
thecreamedcorn 6y ago
I bought a GPU off Amazon not too long ago. It had driver problems and they let me return it no questions asked, full refund and they covered shipping cost. I've never heard of anyone having issues with Amazon returns, and I've certainly never had issues with it myself.

ptero 6y ago

> therefore the retailer is incentivised not to sell junk in the first place. Most retailers seldom care, as they have agreements and well established paths to dump the cost of returns onto the manufacturer.

sukilot 6y ago
Only because they only sell products with a legitimate manufacturer, which is the point.

slowmovintarget 6y ago

There's no escaping Sturgeon's Law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law

OscarTheGrinch 6y ago
Hey thanks for that. I had no idea that this insight, obvious to any low level curmudgeon, had been codified into a law. Now kindly stop playing your music so loud and get off my lawn.