7 ms·

None of this is rational or remotely within the realm of objective reality. The people making these decisions should be liable for gross negligence and manslaug

None of this is rational or remotely within the realm of objective reality. The people making these decisions should be liable for gross negligence and manslaughter should it come to it. There is no excuse for sending kids to school during a pandemic. Absolutely absurd.

Consultant32452 6y ago
I agree with you that we should not force schools to open, nor should we force teachers or students to return. I'm interested, however, in your thoughts on the second and third order effects of school and economic shutdowns? One article I read recently suggested there will be an additional 500k deaths in India due to TB because lockdowns are preventing people from getting treatment. An additional 10k children will starve to death worldwide per month due to second and third order effects from people not buying/using regular old crap from the store. We've also seen suicides and drug overdoses skyrocket in the United States. There's a lot going on and there appear to only be bad options on the table. Are there other things you're aware of, that you're taking into consideration?
- beepboopbeep 6y ago
  1. There are only bad options on the table because there is no coordination at the federal level. Just denial. 2. There is no other option. You quarantine, or you don't. It's a binary thing. If you don't quarantine, you continue to spread the virus and prolong the issues. I don't know why you're talking about TB
  - Consultant32452 6y ago
    Aside from preventing covid deaths, what are the consequences of quarantining the whole country? In India, 500k extra are dying from TB. That's a consequence of their lockdown. Globally, an extra 10k children are starving to death per month. That's a consequence of the economic issues resulting from lockdowns. If we're going to make educated decisions, we need to acknowledge the true costs of our actions.
commandlinefan 6y ago
But all of those kids were at the same risk for the regular seasonal flu, which is just about as dangerous to their age group, at this same time last year. And will be at this same time next year, even if they cure COVID-19 completely. If your standard for opening a school is "nobody can get sick", you can never open a school.
- yetihehe 6y ago
  Then they go home to their parents and sometimes grandparents.
- Jotra7 6y ago
  What an argument... Kids live with people that arent kids, and spread that way. Are you being disingenuous on purpose?
- enchiridion 6y ago
  Define risk. If we're talking about acute death, then sure. However, there is also evidence of organ damage and anosmia among those who recover.
- zaphar 6y ago
  The seasonal flu does not kill 150,000+ people in 4 months. There seasonal flu also usually has a working vaccine. Comparing the risks of spreading the seasonal flu to the risks of spreading the Covid19 virus had Covid19 looking significantly more deadly to a community.
- zentiggr 6y ago
  Or a non-sympomantic kid gives it to another, who goes home and gives it to someone immunocompromised, like _me_. If I get this, I have a high chance of hospitalization and all the organ damage and ventilator consequences and etc that the flu has no serious chance of causing. Your 'not so bad' doesn't cover the real potential costs.
  - commandlinefan 6y ago
    But that was all true, of a thousand potential diseases, this same time last year. And it will all be true, of a thousand potential diseases, this same time next year, too.
jimmaswell 6y ago
There are good arguments - development of the kids, transmission from young kids being previously unheard of and now found to still be less likely than from adults, etc. What's absurd is taking such a knee-jerk absolutist stance on a complex issue.
- beepboopbeep 6y ago
  There is no reason to send kids to school in a hot zone. None.
  - jimmaswell 6y ago
    Just gave some but ok, beat that drum.

Consultant32452 6y ago

I agree with you that we should not force schools to open, nor should we force teachers or students to return. I'm interested, however, in your thoughts on the second and third order effects of school and economic shutdowns? One article I read recently suggested there will be an additional 500k deaths in India due to TB because lockdowns are preventing people from getting treatment. An additional 10k children will starve to death worldwide per month due to second and third order effects from people not buying/using regular old crap from the store. We've also seen suicides and drug overdoses skyrocket in the United States. There's a lot going on and there appear to only be bad options on the table. Are there other things you're aware of, that you're taking into consideration?

beepboopbeep 6y ago
1. There are only bad options on the table because there is no coordination at the federal level. Just denial. 2. There is no other option. You quarantine, or you don't. It's a binary thing. If you don't quarantine, you continue to spread the virus and prolong the issues. I don't know why you're talking about TB
- Consultant32452 6y ago
  Aside from preventing covid deaths, what are the consequences of quarantining the whole country? In India, 500k extra are dying from TB. That's a consequence of their lockdown. Globally, an extra 10k children are starving to death per month. That's a consequence of the economic issues resulting from lockdowns. If we're going to make educated decisions, we need to acknowledge the true costs of our actions.

commandlinefan 6y ago

But all of those kids were at the same risk for the regular seasonal flu, which is just about as dangerous to their age group, at this same time last year. And will be at this same time next year, even if they cure COVID-19 completely. If your standard for opening a school is "nobody can get sick", you can never open a school.

yetihehe 6y ago
Then they go home to their parents and sometimes grandparents.
Jotra7 6y ago
What an argument... Kids live with people that arent kids, and spread that way. Are you being disingenuous on purpose?
enchiridion 6y ago
Define risk. If we're talking about acute death, then sure. However, there is also evidence of organ damage and anosmia among those who recover.
zaphar 6y ago
The seasonal flu does not kill 150,000+ people in 4 months. There seasonal flu also usually has a working vaccine. Comparing the risks of spreading the seasonal flu to the risks of spreading the Covid19 virus had Covid19 looking significantly more deadly to a community.
zentiggr 6y ago
Or a non-sympomantic kid gives it to another, who goes home and gives it to someone immunocompromised, like _me_. If I get this, I have a high chance of hospitalization and all the organ damage and ventilator consequences and etc that the flu has no serious chance of causing. Your 'not so bad' doesn't cover the real potential costs.
- commandlinefan 6y ago
  But that was all true, of a thousand potential diseases, this same time last year. And it will all be true, of a thousand potential diseases, this same time next year, too.

jimmaswell 6y ago

There are good arguments - development of the kids, transmission from young kids being previously unheard of and now found to still be less likely than from adults, etc. What's absurd is taking such a knee-jerk absolutist stance on a complex issue.

beepboopbeep 6y ago
There is no reason to send kids to school in a hot zone. None.
- jimmaswell 6y ago
  Just gave some but ok, beat that drum.