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> He’s aware of other languages, as he reveals in his answer to a later question. (“I think C++ can do anything Rust can do, and I would like it to be much simp

• nindalf 6y ago
  The only thing I can think of is modules, which C++20 is planing to introduce. But I would be very surprised if anyone was accusing anyone else of "stealing" ideas. It's preposterous because 1. every language copies good features from others (that's a good thing) and 2. Rust has copied a lot from C++. I wish people wouldn't talk about one or two people with a warped view as "the community".
  • The_rationalist 6y ago
    Modules have existed far before rust e.g in javascript, python, Java, etc
    • remcob 6y ago
      Those are valid examples, but modules are much older than that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_programming#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_programming#History It really shows Stroustrup's point on how most of these programming concepts have been around for a long time.
  • throwaway894345 6y ago
    > I wish people wouldn't talk about one or two people with a warped view as "the community". At least in the quoted sections, they weren’t talking about the opinions of the rust community, but rather those of someone from the Rust community.
    • nindalf 6y ago
      My point is that saying "Rust community" implies that this person represents the community in some way or worse, is representative of the community. Neither is true. It's just some random person with no credentials. That person is no more the Rust community than I am the HN community. Imagine how you'd feel if people made assumptions about you based on what nindalf said that one time.
  • jfkebwjsbx 6y ago
    C++ modules have been a thing for a long time even if the standard is being presented this year. It is not a C++ idea anyway, older languages have had similar facilities.
    • dimitrios1 6y ago
      Additionally, just because C++ "had it" doesn't mean it was done anywhere close to well.
  • asveikau 6y ago
    > Rust has copied a lot from C++. I think this is exactly the thing: if you come from C++ it's very obvious that they drew a lot of inspiration from there (I won't use a charged term like "copied"). But I get the impression that people who got into rust without learning C++ first are largely unaware of this. Or, even if they had worked with c++ but missed the boat on raii and smart pointers.
  • ashtonkem 6y ago
    3. Everyone I've met from the rust community is super explicit that Rust has stolen as many good ideas that it could find, and that that is a good thing.
• turbinerneiter 6y ago
  > It's incredulous to think that anyone from the Rust community can put forth such a claim If you talk about something so undefined as _the Rust community_, I'm pretty sure I can claim that _someone of them_ has said pretty much anything in existence. Like some of the "why did you not write it in Rust" bros on any forum like Reddit or here might very well have writen some utter bullshit about other languages, would not be surprised.
  • throwaway894345 6y ago
    The parent and Stroustrup were both clear in saying “someone from the Rust community” and not “the Rust community”. Talking about group opinions is hard but in this case they were clear.
    • pohl 6y ago
      “Someone from the Rust community” is super vague.
      • AnimalMuppet 6y ago
        Super vague as to who it was, yes. But it's really clear that it wasn't the position of the bulk of the community.
  • protomyth 6y ago
    I'm more than half convinced that the "why did you not write it in Rust" group actually hates Rust and its a meme because those comments certainly promote a visceral hatred.
    • strokirk 6y ago
      I can assure you that they exist, and they are unironic.
      • protomyth 6y ago
• pjmlp 6y ago
  It usually comes from more emotional adopters without much experience in programming languages. You will also see some safety assertions regarding stuff that was already safe when using Ada, or any Modula or Oberon linage of programming languages. Not everyone on Rust community tends to be like that.
• steveklabnik 6y ago
  I am very curious too; I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone claim this. If anything, folks talk about the debt we have to C++ for pioneering a lot of this stuff!
• yesenadam 6y ago
  nit: Only people can be incredulous. Well ok, dogs etc too. It means (of a person) "not wanting or not able to believe something, and usually showing this".
  • ncmncm 6y ago
    People are avoiding "incredible" for its dictionary meaning nowadays because it has morphed into a generic intensifier. In a few years that will pass, and people will not say extremely silly things like "incredibly honest" anymore. But they will necessarily take up saying other equally silly things.
    • yesenadam 6y ago
      Thanks!! "Generic intensifier" is a very useful label, e.g. it's been driving me nuts how "literally" is used so frequently and inappropriately, on HN and other places. It's become a generic intensifier. But these words that cry wolf lose their..Ah well, this is what language evolving looks like I guess - like it's going downhill! But it's like Reutersvärd/Penrose stairs, only appearing to descend.
      • ncmncm 6y ago
        You are tripping over the Recency Illusion. As with almost all complained-about English usage, abuse of "literally" began (literally) centuries ago. British newspapers regularly host shrill complaints about language degradation in the Colonies, but in every single case the reviled usage turns out to have started somewhere in England, typically before the colonials went. That shouldn't surprise: there is overwhelmingly more variability in English usage in England than the sum total in all other places. It would not be at all surprising if "incredibly" went through a similar cycle 200 years ago. For a time, "nice" meant "stupid", before it meant "precise". For a time, "plausible" meant "implausible". Just be glad abuse of "exponentially" has fallen off.
        • yesenadam 6y ago
          > You are tripping over the Recency Illusion. Maybe, or maybe it is an unprecedented recent spike. We're both guessing, I suspect. [5 minutes research later] Well, there is this measure of the frequency of 'literally' in books in English since 1600. (Although I meant in speech and online comments) https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=literally&year_start=1600&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=3 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=literally&year... Which does seem to possibly support the 'unprecedented spike' hypothesis! A huge surge since 1990, the largest ever, the word is now used twice as often as in books in 1990. Looking at examples from 1800-1820, during the 2rd biggest surge, which lasted around 100 years centred on 1840, https://www.google.com/search?q=%22literally%22&tbm=bks&tbs=cdr:1,cd_min:1800,cd_max:1821&lr=lang_en https://www.google.com/search?q=%22literally%22&tbm=bks&tbs=... - none of those on the first few pages of results appear to be the general intensifier kind of 'literally'. Compare with 2019-2020, where most examples in the first few pages are the kind I've gotten so sick of lately: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22literally%22&tbm=bks&tbs=cdr:1,cd_min:2019,cd_max:2020&lr=lang_en https://www.google.com/search?q=%22literally%22&tbm=bks&tbs=... I eagerly await further research in the field. :-)
• The_rationalist 6y ago
  C++ is building something similar (and maybe with less syntactic noise aka lifetimes markers) to rust borrow checker https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/8zle4k/current_state_of_the_lifetime_checker/?utm_source=xpromo&utm_medium=amp&utm_name=amp_comment_iterations&utm_term=active_search&utm_content=post_body https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/8zle4k/current_state_o... But yeah indeed, rust borrowed more concepts (e.g RAII) from C++ than C++ borrowed from rust
  • hu3 6y ago
    Rust also borrowed concepts from Cyclone: > The inspiration for safe borrowed references comes in two ways from the Cyclone programming language, a joint development effort by AT&T and Cornell University. The notion of a borrowed reference is adapted from Cyclone’s polymorphic restricted alias pointers. Additionally, Cyclone’s safe memory management focused on regions (which are usually arenas). In order to ensure memory safety, Cyclone pointers could be annotated with a named region qualifier preceded with a back-tick (making them look very much like Rust’s apostrophe-based lifetime annotations). source: https://pling.jondgoodwin.com/post/lifetimes/ https://pling.jondgoodwin.com/post/lifetimes/
• teleforce 6y ago
  Good artists copy but great artists steal :-) Joking aside, it's funny that Bjarne did not talk about D since it seems that C++ is copying many of D nice features in later of C++ iterations for over a decade now. And now D is copying the Rust/Cyclone ownership concept, nice!
  • mhh__ 6y ago
    Admitting that D even exists should embarrass the C++ committee. Modules and contracts have taken something like 30 years combined, and they still aren't prevalent. The tried to borrow static if, but theirs is scoped and misses the point (the static if paper). All of the aforementioned are maintained in a language that has less maintainers than C++ has committee members, with better solutions and orders of magnitude faster compile time.
    • pjmlp 6y ago
      Why should it? At least ISO C++ knows what they want, while D is still trying to find out to which community they should be advertising to. I find many of the people on their forums quite nice, but D lacks a profound sense of direction and which market they want to target.
      • mhh__ 6y ago
        Filling multiple roles is not the same as lack of direction. D does lack direction, but that's arguably a good thing - that's why the scripting-like features can exist alongside the features which are intended for writing high performance code. The fact that C++ is only used for performance is due to C++ being a bad language everywhere else rather than being amazing at writing high performance code. How many hours of developer productivity have been lost to slow compiles and bad metaprogramming (traits, contracts, and constexpr are emblematic of the half in half out C++ way)
        • pjmlp 6y ago
          Might be, but right now I don't see D ever taking off, rather going on the down slope of adoption curve, while C++ despite its warts, keeps increasing adoption thanks to AI, GPGPU shaders and driver SDKs for all major OSes. By the way no one at Remedy is using D nowadays, while the number of studios using C# alongside C++ keeps increasing.
• deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
• seanmcdirmid 6y ago
  Any community that is large enough is going to have some less informed brash members. Communities are open big tents after all.
  • jrott 6y ago
    Yeah it's probably actually a sign of a healthy community that it has less informed members that feel safe to speak up. That's how they learn even if it can be hard to deal with.
• pornel 6y ago
  Rust officially credits many languages including C++: https://doc.rust-lang.org/reference/influences.html https://doc.rust-lang.org/reference/influences.html First Mozilla introduction of Rust states: > Rust is a language that mostly cribs from past languages. Nothing new. http://venge.net/graydon/talks/intro-talk-2.pdf http://venge.net/graydon/talks/intro-talk-2.pdf (I recommend reading the slides — they're great!) so whoever is accusing C++ of "stealing" Rust ideas is uninformed about C++ and Rust.