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Hot topic, but your comment has some good points I'll try to add my experience to. > I'm for removing barriers to anyone being able to be interested, educated,
by grx 6y ago
Hot topic, but your comment has some good points I'll try to add my experience to.
> I'm for removing barriers to anyone being able to be interested, educated, and encouraged to do the things they want to do. And we should work to make it easier for people to be identified as having skills and talent in whatever field they choose.
From my POV, as a white male, this relates to a misconception of what many "diversity" programs actually aim for: pushing underprivileged and disadvantaged people into positions from where they have better chances to even come in contact with their true interests and talents. The same goes for role modelling, which is not to be underestimated in the context of "do the things they want to do". If you are black or female, but 90% of an "industry" (whatever that is, just take a group of people representing the part of society which does $thing) is white and male, could you see yourself in this industry? I know this is an extremely controversial question, especially in discussions between white males. But from what I learned from underrepresented people during the years is that role models and identification plays a HUGE part in "making a free choice".
> Every field and industry and job will reflect the demographics of who is interested in doing that job, the pipeline of people who seek to become educated and qualified for it, and the proportions of who succeeds at showing their skills.
I would not follow this as straight as you have. The demographics in tech (and other fields, of course) could also show that once a majority is settled (here: white male), they tend to attract and recruit people who are like-minded and similar to themselves.
Example US: "Among chief executives of S.&P. 1500 firms, for each woman, there are four men named John, Robert, William or James", https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/03/upshot/fewer-women-run-big-companies-than-men-named-john.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/03/upshot/fewer-women-run-bi...
Example DE: "The surnames Thomas and Andreas make up a share of 7%, more than the total shares of women", https://www.manager-magazin.de/politik/artikel/weniger-frauen-in-mdax-vorstaenden-als-maenner-namens-thomas-a-1022017.html https://www.manager-magazin.de/politik/artikel/weniger-fraue...
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I know what you mean, and for a long time I was in the same boat, looking for barriers like money and availability of time that might block minorities from entering higher education and the higher workforce. But the problems are of structural nature and they can only be solved by acknowledging that the main barriers are not forms, interest and intelligence, but identification, perspective and connections.
- flak48 6y agoHow did other industries that were once historically male dominated overcome this 'identification problem' atleast in terms of gender if not race? (Professions like biologists, psychologists, forensic scientist, vet for example all of which are around 75%+ female today, except for biologist which is bit more even) And why haven't we seen the same pattern in tech?
- grx 6y agoGood question, and since I am not a sociologist, I can only guess. One thing in advance, and as a reaction to the received downvotes: my usage of the word "identification" has nothing to do with "identity politics" that are raging in the US and elsewhere. In German, saying "to identify with someone" is more meant as "seeing myself becoming the person that I can identify with" or "I could see myself in this persons position". Like a 1:1 connection. > How did other industries that were once historically male dominated overcome [...] in terms of gender if not race? Based on what I wrote above, I have shortened the quote. And my guess would be the advancement of female integration into higher education, participation and choice of profession. Keep in mind that women were not allowed to vote until some time in the 20th century. With a lot of steps, women and daughters gained more empowerment. All in all, men and women have more aligned chances in today's workforce (details debatable), but the changes need to be done first. And they were not gently handed over by people (men) who were in advanced positions before. > And why haven't we seen the same pattern in tech? The tech industry is pretty young compared to the other fields of study you mentioned. I guess social changes will also ingest the tech industry, because they follow a progressive cycle that repeats every x years. Of course there might be more to it, if you take into account how many aspects of human life are affected by technology today (and how fast these changes arrived..). What would your opinion be on that matter, answering your own questions?
- flak48 6y ago> What would your opinion be on that matter, answering your own questions? I'm honestly perplexed. Maybe I should study what those fields did, if they made any conscious efforts to address diversity mismatch (compared to demographics of the general population) . Or if some other barriers came down that allowed male dominance to reduce in these fields(in some cases to be replaced by female dominance).