6 ms·

I'm all for this for the shipping industry and completely unmanned, but I'm not about to fly on this myself.

boogies 6y ago
The article mentions that. “For its passenger jets, though, Airbus states the tech won't replace pilots in the cockpit but will make flying safer by helping reduce workload. … "For autonomous technologies to improve flight operations and overall aircraft performance, pilots will remain at the heart of operations," Airbus said in a press release.”
newsclues 6y ago
Is that logical? What are the environmental and economic costs of an automated cargo ship going down vs airliner (cargo for comparison)? It’s hundreds of millions dollars and fuel.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Avicebron 6y ago
  Actually this leads to an interesting point..as far as I know cargo ships are not automated sooner. It seems that it's just as open as the sky...potentially the sea is much less forgiving?
  - Gwypaas 6y ago
    I would mainly say less standardized and less regulated. Big vessels already require pilots in and out of ports because the crew isn't trusted. Then essentially every single ship is a custom build with all the years of problems to iron out that comes with. With less regulated you don't have a required AIS on every canoe or vessel, meaning you need to react on visual and radar input according to the colregs. In the US every aircraft flying already have ADS-B. So with some worldwide regulation and a modular system able to interface and work with different equipment and sizes to create the economics of scale you have something working in the not too far future. Though, this still requires the bridge and interfacing systems and sensors to be stable enough. Meaning no vessel today is good enough. Compared to aviation it is much more hands on based on tribal knowledge. Like on a ship I work on "the remote for the autopilot tends to quit working every 3 months, just reset the whole autopilot, by pulling the breaker, if it does." This information stays on the boat and never reaches the manufacturer, instead of fixing what is probably some overflow happening. And the fix would be replacing the unit instead of deeper troubleshooting. Seen it happen many times.
asynchronous13 6y ago
If you ever take commercial flights you are already being flown by autopilot, and have been for decades. It might give you comfort that there is a human pilot in the cockpit for backup, but it's only a matter of time before the human backup moves to a ground station.
- fossuser 6y ago
  The Boeing 737 max 8 software couldn't keep a plane in the sky with an army of pilots fighting to save their own lives. I wouldn't get in one of these until there are better controls on this kind of software, it's not the same as autopilot.
  - asynchronous13 6y ago
    There is a long list of entirely preventable human-caused accidents. Is there a reason pilot-caused crashes are less scary for you? Computer caused accidents will be fixed and won't happen again. Human-caused accidents will keep happening as long as experience is valuable. Aeroflot Flight 593 - pilot let his son fly the plane, 63 dead Germanwings Flight 9525 - (possibly suicidal) pilot deliberately crashed , 144 dead Air France Flight 447 - pilot caused airplane to stall, 228 dead Aero Flight 311 - both pilots got drunk, 25 dead and this is just a random selection, there are long long lists of human-caused aviation accidents.
    - fossuser 6y ago
      I'm not a luddite, if the software is ready and safer than people then I'd be okay with it. There's a history of software not being ready while people pretend it is and then it kills people (Therac-25). I'm just skeptical that we'll know when it's actually safe.
      - DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
        Therac-25 wasn’t a “it’s not ready yet!”-type issue. It wasn’t an expected or anticipated failure-mode - it only became a (literal) textbook case-study after people died and the industry has learned and improved as a consequence.
irrational 6y ago
I've read so many stories about drunk pilots, unlicensed pilots (primarily in third world countries), sleepy pilots, unskilled pilots (remember that aircraft that crashed because the captain was pushing down while the copilot was pulling up?), etc. that I think I'd be more comfortable flying with an AI.
bsder 6y ago
The best landing I ever had was on a Boeing 747(?) coming into LAX probably somewhere around 2000. We were flying through a really big storm front forever. Drop. Rise. Drop. Rise. For hours. Finally, we start coming down still bouncing all over the place. About 30 minutes outside LAX, the plane suddenly got as smooth as glass and we touched down with the lightest touch I had ever experienced. Captain comes on: "Well, we were planning on diverting, but you can all thank the fine engineers at Boeing for bringing us down in that weather on autoland." Guy next to me who threw up: "Why the hell couldn't they have turned that on 2 hours earlier?" Pilots are done.
Simulacra 6y ago
The shipping industry is one where it could be extremely helpful, particularly in thwarting pirates. I've always wondered why cargo ships are not drones, full autonomous until it gets within a certain range of its destination.
- alacombe 6y ago
  I'm not sure you'd like the fully automatic sentry miniguns associated with drone ships !
alacombe 6y ago
Classic NIMBY'ism :-)

The article mentions that. “For its passenger jets, though, Airbus states the tech won't replace pilots in the cockpit but will make flying safer by helping reduce workload. … "For autonomous technologies to improve flight operations and overall aircraft performance, pilots will remain at the heart of operations," Airbus said in a press release.”

newsclues 6y ago

Is that logical? What are the environmental and economic costs of an automated cargo ship going down vs airliner (cargo for comparison)? It’s hundreds of millions dollars and fuel.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Avicebron 6y ago
Actually this leads to an interesting point..as far as I know cargo ships are not automated sooner. It seems that it's just as open as the sky...potentially the sea is much less forgiving?
- Gwypaas 6y ago
  I would mainly say less standardized and less regulated. Big vessels already require pilots in and out of ports because the crew isn't trusted. Then essentially every single ship is a custom build with all the years of problems to iron out that comes with. With less regulated you don't have a required AIS on every canoe or vessel, meaning you need to react on visual and radar input according to the colregs. In the US every aircraft flying already have ADS-B. So with some worldwide regulation and a modular system able to interface and work with different equipment and sizes to create the economics of scale you have something working in the not too far future. Though, this still requires the bridge and interfacing systems and sensors to be stable enough. Meaning no vessel today is good enough. Compared to aviation it is much more hands on based on tribal knowledge. Like on a ship I work on "the remote for the autopilot tends to quit working every 3 months, just reset the whole autopilot, by pulling the breaker, if it does." This information stays on the boat and never reaches the manufacturer, instead of fixing what is probably some overflow happening. And the fix would be replacing the unit instead of deeper troubleshooting. Seen it happen many times.

asynchronous13 6y ago

If you ever take commercial flights you are already being flown by autopilot, and have been for decades. It might give you comfort that there is a human pilot in the cockpit for backup, but it's only a matter of time before the human backup moves to a ground station.

fossuser 6y ago
The Boeing 737 max 8 software couldn't keep a plane in the sky with an army of pilots fighting to save their own lives. I wouldn't get in one of these until there are better controls on this kind of software, it's not the same as autopilot.
- asynchronous13 6y ago
  There is a long list of entirely preventable human-caused accidents. Is there a reason pilot-caused crashes are less scary for you? Computer caused accidents will be fixed and won't happen again. Human-caused accidents will keep happening as long as experience is valuable. Aeroflot Flight 593 - pilot let his son fly the plane, 63 dead Germanwings Flight 9525 - (possibly suicidal) pilot deliberately crashed , 144 dead Air France Flight 447 - pilot caused airplane to stall, 228 dead Aero Flight 311 - both pilots got drunk, 25 dead and this is just a random selection, there are long long lists of human-caused aviation accidents.
  - fossuser 6y ago
    I'm not a luddite, if the software is ready and safer than people then I'd be okay with it. There's a history of software not being ready while people pretend it is and then it kills people (Therac-25). I'm just skeptical that we'll know when it's actually safe.
    - DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
      Therac-25 wasn’t a “it’s not ready yet!”-type issue. It wasn’t an expected or anticipated failure-mode - it only became a (literal) textbook case-study after people died and the industry has learned and improved as a consequence.

irrational 6y ago

I've read so many stories about drunk pilots, unlicensed pilots (primarily in third world countries), sleepy pilots, unskilled pilots (remember that aircraft that crashed because the captain was pushing down while the copilot was pulling up?), etc. that I think I'd be more comfortable flying with an AI.

bsder 6y ago

The best landing I ever had was on a Boeing 747(?) coming into LAX probably somewhere around 2000. We were flying through a really big storm front forever. Drop. Rise. Drop. Rise. For hours. Finally, we start coming down still bouncing all over the place. About 30 minutes outside LAX, the plane suddenly got as smooth as glass and we touched down with the lightest touch I had ever experienced. Captain comes on: "Well, we were planning on diverting, but you can all thank the fine engineers at Boeing for bringing us down in that weather on autoland." Guy next to me who threw up: "Why the hell couldn't they have turned that on 2 hours earlier?" Pilots are done.

Simulacra 6y ago

The shipping industry is one where it could be extremely helpful, particularly in thwarting pirates. I've always wondered why cargo ships are not drones, full autonomous until it gets within a certain range of its destination.

alacombe 6y ago
I'm not sure you'd like the fully automatic sentry miniguns associated with drone ships !

alacombe 6y ago

Classic NIMBY'ism :-)