8 ms·

I see endless Leafs for sale (the older original ones) for only $5k. Granted their batteries are pretty degraded and I'm sure only gets 60 miles of range when b

I see endless Leafs for sale (the older original ones) for only $5k. Granted their batteries are pretty degraded and I'm sure only gets 60 miles of range when blasting AC or heater.

bfieidhbrjr 6y ago
Actually a lot less, more like 30 miles. Worse if it's cold, hot or uphill. I've owned a couple of leafs. The problem is kind of interesting - a smaller battery in and of itself is painful but there's a deeper problem. YOu have to spread the charge cycle over the whole battery and you have to do more charge cycles. So a Tesla can discharge different cells each day, and any individual cell gets used less frequently. With the leaf, you're using every cell, every day. So it's compounding and much worse than people realize, forgetting all the other problems like no thermal control on the pack. I actually loved my leafs (leaves?) but they couldn't even get to the city and back very quickly (I mean after 6 months the battery loses a bar). The newer ones are betterish.
- dencodev 6y ago
  At 30 miles range I think I'd rather just take my ebike instead, which gets 24 miles at 30MPH with zero pedaling if I bring an extra battery.
  - dhosek 6y ago
    30 miles is what we get on a charge with our plugin hybrid minivan before it switches to gas. The last time we bought gas was 28 Feb. It tends to prefer gas in the winter which is a big part of why we bought gas then (looking back over the records, we normally buy a tank of gas once a month in the winter and maybe one more sometime in the summer unless we take a road trip).
    - dencodev 6y ago
      I don't think I'd ever get a plug in hybrid - most of the appeal to electric cars for me in the lack of maintenance and lack of things to break. Adding batteries to a gas car just seems like it's doubling the amount that can go wrong and makes the repairs much more expensive.
      - nradov 6y ago
        Toyota plug-in hybrid cars are actually more reliable than comparable Tesla electric cars, despite the greater mechanical complexity. https://www.truedelta.com/Tesla-Model-3-vs-Toyota-Prius-Prime-reliability-comparison,1376-1393 https://www.truedelta.com/Tesla-Model-3-vs-Toyota-Prius-Prim...
        dencodev 6y ago
        All I see here are two percentages and a happy face and a sad face. It doesn't really have anything compelling for me to see. And if I'm more likely to need to get a model 3 serviced for something like a panel gap, I'd gladly take that over the risk of total ICE failure on a Toyota. The website says nothing about the severity of the problems, and it's really just the severe ones I care about.
        dhosek 6y ago
        The plug-in hybrid is the non-plug-in hybrid with a bigger battery and an external charger. Before Toyota released their first plug-in model, this was a popular DIY hack. We had our non-plug-in Prius for ten years without a single problem before we sold it and bought the Pacifica. You're imagining an issue that doesn't exist. It's not some exotic technology, it's something that's been on the road for over two decades in its modern incarnation and has roots that extend back to the 19th century.
        dencodev 6y ago
        ICEs have a track record of decades of catastrophic failures due to major component failure. Water pumps, timing belts, gasket leaks, fuel contamination, the list goes on. I've only ever seen a few catastrophic Tesla failures and only because literally every single time it happens it makes the news. Your single data point doesn't mean a whole lot. I realize this comes across as abrasive but I don't meant for it to. Just being conversational
- dhosek 6y ago
  It looks like a battery pack replacement with a new battery pack would run around $6K including labor. Assuming the body is fine, that's not too bad of a deal to add onto a cheap Leaf.

I see endless Leafs for sale (the older original ones) for only $5k. Granted their batteries are pretty degraded and I'm sure only gets 60 miles of range when blasting AC or heater.

bfieidhbrjr 6y ago

Actually a lot less, more like 30 miles. Worse if it's cold, hot or uphill. I've owned a couple of leafs. The problem is kind of interesting - a smaller battery in and of itself is painful but there's a deeper problem. YOu have to spread the charge cycle over the whole battery and you have to do more charge cycles. So a Tesla can discharge different cells each day, and any individual cell gets used less frequently. With the leaf, you're using every cell, every day. So it's compounding and much worse than people realize, forgetting all the other problems like no thermal control on the pack. I actually loved my leafs (leaves?) but they couldn't even get to the city and back very quickly (I mean after 6 months the battery loses a bar). The newer ones are betterish.

dencodev 6y ago
At 30 miles range I think I'd rather just take my ebike instead, which gets 24 miles at 30MPH with zero pedaling if I bring an extra battery.
- dhosek 6y ago
  30 miles is what we get on a charge with our plugin hybrid minivan before it switches to gas. The last time we bought gas was 28 Feb. It tends to prefer gas in the winter which is a big part of why we bought gas then (looking back over the records, we normally buy a tank of gas once a month in the winter and maybe one more sometime in the summer unless we take a road trip).
  - dencodev 6y ago
    I don't think I'd ever get a plug in hybrid - most of the appeal to electric cars for me in the lack of maintenance and lack of things to break. Adding batteries to a gas car just seems like it's doubling the amount that can go wrong and makes the repairs much more expensive.
    - nradov 6y ago
      Toyota plug-in hybrid cars are actually more reliable than comparable Tesla electric cars, despite the greater mechanical complexity. https://www.truedelta.com/Tesla-Model-3-vs-Toyota-Prius-Prime-reliability-comparison,1376-1393 https://www.truedelta.com/Tesla-Model-3-vs-Toyota-Prius-Prim...
      - dencodev 6y ago
        All I see here are two percentages and a happy face and a sad face. It doesn't really have anything compelling for me to see. And if I'm more likely to need to get a model 3 serviced for something like a panel gap, I'd gladly take that over the risk of total ICE failure on a Toyota. The website says nothing about the severity of the problems, and it's really just the severe ones I care about.
        dhosek 6y ago
        The plug-in hybrid is the non-plug-in hybrid with a bigger battery and an external charger. Before Toyota released their first plug-in model, this was a popular DIY hack. We had our non-plug-in Prius for ten years without a single problem before we sold it and bought the Pacifica. You're imagining an issue that doesn't exist. It's not some exotic technology, it's something that's been on the road for over two decades in its modern incarnation and has roots that extend back to the 19th century.
        dencodev 6y ago
        ICEs have a track record of decades of catastrophic failures due to major component failure. Water pumps, timing belts, gasket leaks, fuel contamination, the list goes on. I've only ever seen a few catastrophic Tesla failures and only because literally every single time it happens it makes the news. Your single data point doesn't mean a whole lot. I realize this comes across as abrasive but I don't meant for it to. Just being conversational
dhosek 6y ago
It looks like a battery pack replacement with a new battery pack would run around $6K including labor. Assuming the body is fine, that's not too bad of a deal to add onto a cheap Leaf.