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I wouldn't consider DNA to be secret information. Given that you leave them every where you go.

jakear 6y ago
There is a world of difference between 1. Having your DNA already in the database 2. Your DNA being out somewhere on the street where it could only be linked to you by name through a targeted reconnaissance effort
- Ultimatt 6y ago
  By targeted reconnaissance effort do you mean trivial geographic correlation based on your phones location data. So if the Google Street View car had a DNA sequencer on the back and GPS recorded any fragments and location it could trivially reconstruct quite a bit. No one has done this yet, but it's utterly doable. DNA is not private information its the most public information you can imagine is not controllable in any way thats meaningful to traditional thoughts on data privacy.
  - jakear 6y ago
    If an action requires less investment and provides the same value, it will happen more frequently — economics. A database lookup requires less investment than a targeted DNA harvesting, sequencing, and location correlation operation.
  - zwirbl 6y ago
    So because it is supposed to be trivial to identify people based on GPS, phone and DNA (which I dont believe), it doesn't matter if one gets his data into a DB, which gets leaked to the internet and then can be found/used by anyone? I don't think I follow u our reasoning. I'll also state that DNA is hardly the most public information there is, surely your face/skin color/size/other physical characteristics are more public?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- runaway 6y ago
  I think this is somewhat analogous to the privacy issues around Google Street View. Almost nobody thought the image of the front of their house was really private, but the idea of it being catalogued and searchable bothered more than a few. Removing the barrier of someone having to physically do the work to get that information at least made them feel more vulnerable. Has Street View been a problem for the world in that way? I haven't personally experienced that. That's probably why the DNA database idea doesn't scare me. If you want to live in the world it's essentially impossible to keep your DNA a secret. It seems to me that eventually someone will pick it all up and organize it.
  - jakear 6y ago
    Your street view doesn’t contain your entire genetic record (including propensities towards disease, mental and physical, which could very easily be used to discriminate against you). So they’re not really comparable whatsoever. And what is with this “this terrible thing X will happen eventually, so why not have it happen now?” argument I keep seeing nowadays? Your argument was quite literally: “Eventually someone will collect all your DNA”, so who cares if it’s now or later?
    - runaway 6y ago
      I'm a little confused about what exactly the point of debate is here. * Is your DNA a secret? I think the fact that you leave it everywhere means no. * Should people be allowed to aggregate that information? It literally cannot be stopped so I think the point is moot. I guess what I'm missing is any addressing of the reality of the situation. I'm guessing from the content of your reply that you think that the practice of cataloging DNA should be banned. Great. What happens when they do it anyway?
      - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
        > Should people be allowed to aggregate that information? It literally cannot be stopped so I think the point is moot. Just because you can't stop something doesn't mean you shouldn't even try. Otherwise we might skip having laws altogether.
dgellow 6y ago
Not secret but I would definitely consider it a PII (personally identifiable information), which makes it subject to regulations such as GDPR.
hrktb 6y ago
This is the same gap between being seen face to face in a public square and having a high resolution 3D scan of your body. We're ok with the former since the dawn of times, we're not happy with the later being digitally shared around the world.

There is a world of difference between 1. Having your DNA already in the database 2. Your DNA being out somewhere on the street where it could only be linked to you by name through a targeted reconnaissance effort

Ultimatt 6y ago
By targeted reconnaissance effort do you mean trivial geographic correlation based on your phones location data. So if the Google Street View car had a DNA sequencer on the back and GPS recorded any fragments and location it could trivially reconstruct quite a bit. No one has done this yet, but it's utterly doable. DNA is not private information its the most public information you can imagine is not controllable in any way thats meaningful to traditional thoughts on data privacy.
- jakear 6y ago
  If an action requires less investment and provides the same value, it will happen more frequently — economics. A database lookup requires less investment than a targeted DNA harvesting, sequencing, and location correlation operation.
- zwirbl 6y ago
  So because it is supposed to be trivial to identify people based on GPS, phone and DNA (which I dont believe), it doesn't matter if one gets his data into a DB, which gets leaked to the internet and then can be found/used by anyone? I don't think I follow u our reasoning. I'll also state that DNA is hardly the most public information there is, surely your face/skin color/size/other physical characteristics are more public?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
runaway 6y ago
I think this is somewhat analogous to the privacy issues around Google Street View. Almost nobody thought the image of the front of their house was really private, but the idea of it being catalogued and searchable bothered more than a few. Removing the barrier of someone having to physically do the work to get that information at least made them feel more vulnerable. Has Street View been a problem for the world in that way? I haven't personally experienced that. That's probably why the DNA database idea doesn't scare me. If you want to live in the world it's essentially impossible to keep your DNA a secret. It seems to me that eventually someone will pick it all up and organize it.
- jakear 6y ago
  Your street view doesn’t contain your entire genetic record (including propensities towards disease, mental and physical, which could very easily be used to discriminate against you). So they’re not really comparable whatsoever. And what is with this “this terrible thing X will happen eventually, so why not have it happen now?” argument I keep seeing nowadays? Your argument was quite literally: “Eventually someone will collect all your DNA”, so who cares if it’s now or later?
  - runaway 6y ago
    I'm a little confused about what exactly the point of debate is here. * Is your DNA a secret? I think the fact that you leave it everywhere means no. * Should people be allowed to aggregate that information? It literally cannot be stopped so I think the point is moot. I guess what I'm missing is any addressing of the reality of the situation. I'm guessing from the content of your reply that you think that the practice of cataloging DNA should be banned. Great. What happens when they do it anyway?
    - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
      > Should people be allowed to aggregate that information? It literally cannot be stopped so I think the point is moot. Just because you can't stop something doesn't mean you shouldn't even try. Otherwise we might skip having laws altogether.

dgellow 6y ago

Not secret but I would definitely consider it a PII (personally identifiable information), which makes it subject to regulations such as GDPR.

hrktb 6y ago

This is the same gap between being seen face to face in a public square and having a high resolution 3D scan of your body. We're ok with the former since the dawn of times, we're not happy with the later being digitally shared around the world.