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This doesn't directly answer your question and you didn't ask it, but I feel it relates directly to the source of your frustration potentially: you may never fi

This doesn't directly answer your question and you didn't ask it, but I feel it relates directly to the source of your frustration potentially: you may never find a job that is fully satisfactory in terms of what you hope to find. I used to be in a similar boat striving to work towards and find some magical job that would make me feel fulfilled and purposeful. They all ended up having things I didn't like and would quickly lose interest. So at least what I did is stop trying to put so much of an expectation on my job to fulfill me. I took responsibility to find and do things at and especially outside of my day job that did fulfill me. Now I feel no large angst or annoyance at glacial paces at work that occur, political games, etc.. because I have other things that are more important to me that are interesting, provide meaning to me, challenging, etc. Having a nice paying job with relatively little work to do is something of a luxury, especially in this pandemic time where the economic toll is hitting many. So my unwarranted suggestion is to find something meaningful for yourself to do/experience even if your work isn't where it's at.. you probably will even have extra time to discover and pursue that since sounds like you're not so busy at work.

kaiwren 6y ago
I think you are right, and that makes me sad.
- loopz 6y ago
  There's much more to life than working a job. Work-life balance can be tricky, especially if you seek fulfillment, it may take years/decades to find what you seek, be fulfilled and then contribute from your own source. This is a healthy thing, and one would do well to pay attention and focus on what matters.
andyjohnson0 6y ago
I agree. Don't look for personal fulfilment in work: that's not what it's for. Work for money, and use it as one of the tools you have for seeking fulfilment, not as an end in itself. Life isn't short but it's not long either, and the only thing you really have is time.
- nihil75 6y ago
  And that is how under-performing teams like OP describes are born.
  - minimuffins 6y ago
    Do you think like, high performing teams at a FAANG corporation is the meaning of life, or?
oliv__ 6y ago
I'm sorry if I'm taking this the wrong way but that sounds like settling for mediocrity to me. Who said jobs can't be fulfilling?
- jasonmp85 6y ago
  Marx?
  - jfengel 6y ago
    Marx was big on getting people to the place where they don't feel like their work is pointless. But in order to get there, you have to get rid of the social stratification of the current system, where some people do their labor and give it to somebody else to sell. That seller not only gets to keep the majority of the profit, but it also keeps the work from being very fulfilling since you're disconnected from the end product of your effort. So Marx didn't say it was impossible. He just said that getting from here to there was going to require changes -- changes that could easily be unpleasant.
- rini17 6y ago
  Who said they must be?
  - chownie 6y ago
    You spend around half of your wakeful hours at your job, if it's unfulfilling you're trading misery in addition to time for money.
    - WJW 6y ago
      That's why they pay you money for it. If it was fun, people would do it for free (see the FOSS world and its endless discussions on how to monetize).
      - throwaway98797 6y ago
        Got to believe that it’s possible before you can find it.
jasode 6y ago
>So at least what I did is stop trying to put so much of an expectation on my job to fulfill me. I took responsibility to find and do things at and especially outside of my day job that did fulfill me. I'm not debating you but I just want to point out that your advice depends on the personality. It may even work for most workers but for some us, we cannot mentally "compartmentalize" the day job as the isolated 9-to-5 soul-sucking slog and then use the weekend activities to make up for it. I used to have a boring high-paying job and used the money to go on exotic travel and buy expensive hobby toys like hi-fi audio equipment and camera lenses. I should have done the opposite. Find a day job that I was passionate about instead of looking for fulfillment in after-hours hobbies. For me, I need my hobby to be my day job. I know an entrepreneur who sold his business for millions and I always envied him because he worked 80+ hours every week and he had more energy than I did even though I only worked 40. Why? Because his intense overtime aligned with what he wanted to do. Mine didn't. He didn't golf or go on vacations. He always worked because that's what the most interesting activity was to him. His only break was weekly meditations. That's what I'm trying to do now. I want to find something I can really sink my teeth into and work overtime on. I don't believe in "work/life balance". I tried that. I need work to be my jam. I'm probably the minority and others may even see that as a psychological defect but I can't help it. For me, the dissatisfaction of a boring day job always bleeds into the weekend as an underlying unhappiness I can't shake.
- ghettoCoder 6y ago
  May I suggest finding a cause you truly believe in and volunteering your tech skills. Most non-profits and advocacy groups have such a huge tech deficit that they could use someone like you.
- AlgorithmicTime 6y ago
  Have you tried finding fulfillment in having a family?
- peacemaker 6y ago
  Just wanted to let you know that I'm exactly the same way. In fact, I've even thought perhaps I was the one with the psychological defect where I simply can't stand the 9-5 grind, regardless of the pay, status or type of work. No amount of hobbies, travel or social efforts have made a dent in the deep, existential dread I feel after only a few days in a "normal" job. Unfortunately, while I have had some successes working for myself, I tend to find down periods come along where I need to work again and I convince myself it will be different this time. It usually never is, the only difference being the length of time I can stomach being employed and even then it's a difference of a few weeks at most. Is this actually a defect that needs some kind of therapy to correct? Or is it an acceptable way to be? Who knows but I thought I'd let you know that it's not just you.
mwarkentin 6y ago
https://youtu.be/zgTRPjHVrFE https://youtu.be/zgTRPjHVrFE
gonzo41 6y ago
I think you're on the money with this answer. I would recommend to the OP to consider hiking, bike touring or some other multi-day slow consistent outdoor pursuit. Working inside all day is a special kind of hell.
roadbeats 6y ago
I would like to think like this but can't, may be some elaboration can help me and others who can't think this way. For several times, I left a comfortable job for an adventure, and ended up wasting months (sometimes years) for no outcome actually. If I only had an answer for this; how would we convince ourselves to not do more than we can and be satisfied with the reward of getting relatively better paid than the market ? And what is out there outside the job that can fill the gap of doing nothing 40 hours a week for whole life ? Traveling the world ? Check. Getting scuba diving licenses? Check. Pottery workshops ? Check. What would we head towards while getting used to the comfort of thick paychecks and not really growing on the other hand ? It feels like we're not in charge of our lives in that case and something can come up and take what we're given by those comfortable jobs. Isn't that a concern for anybody else ?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

kaiwren 6y ago

I think you are right, and that makes me sad.

loopz 6y ago
There's much more to life than working a job. Work-life balance can be tricky, especially if you seek fulfillment, it may take years/decades to find what you seek, be fulfilled and then contribute from your own source. This is a healthy thing, and one would do well to pay attention and focus on what matters.

andyjohnson0 6y ago

I agree. Don't look for personal fulfilment in work: that's not what it's for. Work for money, and use it as one of the tools you have for seeking fulfilment, not as an end in itself. Life isn't short but it's not long either, and the only thing you really have is time.

nihil75 6y ago
And that is how under-performing teams like OP describes are born.
- minimuffins 6y ago
  Do you think like, high performing teams at a FAANG corporation is the meaning of life, or?

oliv__ 6y ago

I'm sorry if I'm taking this the wrong way but that sounds like settling for mediocrity to me. Who said jobs can't be fulfilling?

jasonmp85 6y ago
Marx?
- jfengel 6y ago
  Marx was big on getting people to the place where they don't feel like their work is pointless. But in order to get there, you have to get rid of the social stratification of the current system, where some people do their labor and give it to somebody else to sell. That seller not only gets to keep the majority of the profit, but it also keeps the work from being very fulfilling since you're disconnected from the end product of your effort. So Marx didn't say it was impossible. He just said that getting from here to there was going to require changes -- changes that could easily be unpleasant.
rini17 6y ago
Who said they must be?
- chownie 6y ago
  You spend around half of your wakeful hours at your job, if it's unfulfilling you're trading misery in addition to time for money.
  - WJW 6y ago
    That's why they pay you money for it. If it was fun, people would do it for free (see the FOSS world and its endless discussions on how to monetize).
    - throwaway98797 6y ago
      Got to believe that it’s possible before you can find it.

jasode 6y ago

>So at least what I did is stop trying to put so much of an expectation on my job to fulfill me. I took responsibility to find and do things at and especially outside of my day job that did fulfill me. I'm not debating you but I just want to point out that your advice depends on the personality. It may even work for most workers but for some us, we cannot mentally "compartmentalize" the day job as the isolated 9-to-5 soul-sucking slog and then use the weekend activities to make up for it. I used to have a boring high-paying job and used the money to go on exotic travel and buy expensive hobby toys like hi-fi audio equipment and camera lenses. I should have done the opposite. Find a day job that I was passionate about instead of looking for fulfillment in after-hours hobbies. For me, I need my hobby to be my day job. I know an entrepreneur who sold his business for millions and I always envied him because he worked 80+ hours every week and he had more energy than I did even though I only worked 40. Why? Because his intense overtime aligned with what he wanted to do. Mine didn't. He didn't golf or go on vacations. He always worked because that's what the most interesting activity was to him. His only break was weekly meditations. That's what I'm trying to do now. I want to find something I can really sink my teeth into and work overtime on. I don't believe in "work/life balance". I tried that. I need work to be my jam. I'm probably the minority and others may even see that as a psychological defect but I can't help it. For me, the dissatisfaction of a boring day job always bleeds into the weekend as an underlying unhappiness I can't shake.

ghettoCoder 6y ago
May I suggest finding a cause you truly believe in and volunteering your tech skills. Most non-profits and advocacy groups have such a huge tech deficit that they could use someone like you.
AlgorithmicTime 6y ago
Have you tried finding fulfillment in having a family?
peacemaker 6y ago
Just wanted to let you know that I'm exactly the same way. In fact, I've even thought perhaps I was the one with the psychological defect where I simply can't stand the 9-5 grind, regardless of the pay, status or type of work. No amount of hobbies, travel or social efforts have made a dent in the deep, existential dread I feel after only a few days in a "normal" job. Unfortunately, while I have had some successes working for myself, I tend to find down periods come along where I need to work again and I convince myself it will be different this time. It usually never is, the only difference being the length of time I can stomach being employed and even then it's a difference of a few weeks at most. Is this actually a defect that needs some kind of therapy to correct? Or is it an acceptable way to be? Who knows but I thought I'd let you know that it's not just you.

mwarkentin 6y ago

https://youtu.be/zgTRPjHVrFE https://youtu.be/zgTRPjHVrFE

gonzo41 6y ago

I think you're on the money with this answer. I would recommend to the OP to consider hiking, bike touring or some other multi-day slow consistent outdoor pursuit. Working inside all day is a special kind of hell.

roadbeats 6y ago

I would like to think like this but can't, may be some elaboration can help me and others who can't think this way. For several times, I left a comfortable job for an adventure, and ended up wasting months (sometimes years) for no outcome actually. If I only had an answer for this; how would we convince ourselves to not do more than we can and be satisfied with the reward of getting relatively better paid than the market ? And what is out there outside the job that can fill the gap of doing nothing 40 hours a week for whole life ? Traveling the world ? Check. Getting scuba diving licenses? Check. Pottery workshops ? Check. What would we head towards while getting used to the comfort of thick paychecks and not really growing on the other hand ? It feels like we're not in charge of our lives in that case and something can come up and take what we're given by those comfortable jobs. Isn't that a concern for anybody else ?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]