5 ms·

Almost any country which tries full on communism sadly ends up in a similar scenario. See USSR, Mao's China. In Mao's China, it was well apparent that the commu

Almost any country which tries full on communism sadly ends up in a similar scenario. See USSR, Mao's China. In Mao's China, it was well apparent that the communal farms weren't working and even the people's daily wrote a story on it. The then high ranking party officials also opposed them. But Mao still got rid of them all and continued, causing several famines.

walrus01 6y ago
The USSR at least pushed hard for science, engineering and technology education. Political party type and organization aside, the rapid growth of their electrical grid and large-scale engineering projects (hydroelectric dams, airports, nuclear power, hospitals etc) in the post-1945 era was quite rapid. The Khmer Rouge and its strongly anti-intellectual stance was quite the opposite. You can't return an entire country to an agrarian subsistence agriculture system and literally kill off every educated person that can be found, and expect good results...
- enitihas 6y ago
  The USSR pushed hard for science which could improve the nation's global standing, like space missions. The USSR was no less anti intellectual in other fields like biology: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- clon 6y ago
  Much of the "progress" in the USSR was based on slave labour [1]. And it was not limited to just physical labour. Many intellectual feats were also the product of people working in, what essentially amounts to, a prison [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharashka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharashka
  - mc32 6y ago
    As far as I understand it they also in many cases virtually held scientists or their families hostage to the outcome. Fail and you or your family gets sent to the gulags. One example is Yuri Gagarin's cosmonaut partner and his getting burned on re-entry due to rushing things to get under a deadline to avoid “consequences”.
    - walrus01 6y ago
      Or if not sent to the gulags, sent back to a much lower standard of living. People with the equivalent of masters degrees in electrical engineering, aerospace, structural engineering etc could expect to have a fairly decent apartment, chance to get in the waiting list to acquire a family car, and other "high standard of living" compared to persons working in a manual labor job. Fail at whatever scientific or engineering endeavor your project was working on, and expect to lose your nice apartment and benefits...
  - EarthIsHome 6y ago
    The slave labor that the USSR used was abhorrent. According to this study [0] the gulag deaths were approximately 830,000 from 1934 to 1953. It is important to know however that 70% of the deaths occurred between 1941 and 1944 (included) so they can kinda be attributed to difficulties from War Period. Also, it's important to note that antibiotics didn't become available until after WW2. To put things into perspective, I have an interesting comparison for you. Using the same source as above for the USSR, and this report [1] from the Bureau of Justice Statistics we can say that Mortality in the gulag in 1953 (236 deaths per 100,000 prisoners) was lower than mortality in US prisons today, both in state prisons (303 deaths per 100,000 prisoners) and federal prisons (252 deaths per 100,000 prisoners). Hope it's useful. [0]: https://www.jstor.org/stable/2166597?read-now=1&refreqid=excelsior%3Ac7df89fb86f7cdb22472254937584567&seq=33#page_scan_tab_contents https://www.jstor.org/stable/2166597?read-now=1&refreqid=exc... [1]: https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=6766 https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=6766
    - haberman 6y ago
      What is that comparison meant to show?
- rdtsc 6y ago
  > the rapid growth of their electrical grid and large-scale engineering projects (hydroelectric dams, airports, nuclear power, etc) in the post-1945 era was quite rapid. Some of the large construction projects, were built with slave labor. Not all of course, but many where. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Gulag_camps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Gulag_camps. "The Road of Bones" is famous as well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R504_Kolyma_Highway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R504_Kolyma_Highway And while science and engineering was promoted later, during Stalin's time, a lot of intellectuals were purged https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge --- In the 1920s and 1930s, 2,000 writers, intellectuals, and artists were imprisoned and 1,500 died in prisons and concentration camps. After sunspot development research was judged un-Marxist, twenty-seven astronomers disappeared between 1936 and 1938. [...] Official figures put the total number of documentable executions during the years 1937 and 1938 at 681,692,[1][92] in addition to 136,520 deaths in the Gulag;[3] whereas the total estimate of deaths brought about by Soviet repression during the Great Purge ranges from 950,000 to 1.2 million ---
- kennxfl 6y ago
  They were particularly encouraging of scientific endeavors that contributed to national posterity over other nations and disregarded the rest. Intellectual pursuits in politics and really any criticism of government or social norms could get one easily disappeared.
- SiVal 6y ago
  The Soviet universities also had Marxist agriculture departments that guaranteed year after year of food shortages due to "bad weather". Anyone who disagreed was purged until only Marxists, whom they defined as the only true "intellectuals", remained. True anti-intellectualism is when you don't allow intellectual debate. It doesn't require emptying the universities entirely. It is sufficient to empty them of anyone who doesn't sufficiently support the mandated opinions. You can then define those politically pure supporters as the "intellectuals" and anyone who doesn't go along with them as, by definition, "anti-intellectual". You then have an anti-intellectual system where intellectual debate has been silenced, but the universities remain open and anyone who disputes their pronouncements is on the outside and is called "anti-intellectual".

walrus01 6y ago

The USSR at least pushed hard for science, engineering and technology education. Political party type and organization aside, the rapid growth of their electrical grid and large-scale engineering projects (hydroelectric dams, airports, nuclear power, hospitals etc) in the post-1945 era was quite rapid. The Khmer Rouge and its strongly anti-intellectual stance was quite the opposite. You can't return an entire country to an agrarian subsistence agriculture system and literally kill off every educated person that can be found, and expect good results...

enitihas 6y ago
The USSR pushed hard for science which could improve the nation's global standing, like space missions. The USSR was no less anti intellectual in other fields like biology: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
clon 6y ago
Much of the "progress" in the USSR was based on slave labour [1]. And it was not limited to just physical labour. Many intellectual feats were also the product of people working in, what essentially amounts to, a prison [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharashka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharashka
- mc32 6y ago
  As far as I understand it they also in many cases virtually held scientists or their families hostage to the outcome. Fail and you or your family gets sent to the gulags. One example is Yuri Gagarin's cosmonaut partner and his getting burned on re-entry due to rushing things to get under a deadline to avoid “consequences”.
  - walrus01 6y ago
    Or if not sent to the gulags, sent back to a much lower standard of living. People with the equivalent of masters degrees in electrical engineering, aerospace, structural engineering etc could expect to have a fairly decent apartment, chance to get in the waiting list to acquire a family car, and other "high standard of living" compared to persons working in a manual labor job. Fail at whatever scientific or engineering endeavor your project was working on, and expect to lose your nice apartment and benefits...
- EarthIsHome 6y ago
  The slave labor that the USSR used was abhorrent. According to this study [0] the gulag deaths were approximately 830,000 from 1934 to 1953. It is important to know however that 70% of the deaths occurred between 1941 and 1944 (included) so they can kinda be attributed to difficulties from War Period. Also, it's important to note that antibiotics didn't become available until after WW2. To put things into perspective, I have an interesting comparison for you. Using the same source as above for the USSR, and this report [1] from the Bureau of Justice Statistics we can say that Mortality in the gulag in 1953 (236 deaths per 100,000 prisoners) was lower than mortality in US prisons today, both in state prisons (303 deaths per 100,000 prisoners) and federal prisons (252 deaths per 100,000 prisoners). Hope it's useful. [0]: https://www.jstor.org/stable/2166597?read-now=1&refreqid=excelsior%3Ac7df89fb86f7cdb22472254937584567&seq=33#page_scan_tab_contents https://www.jstor.org/stable/2166597?read-now=1&refreqid=exc... [1]: https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=6766 https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=6766
  - haberman 6y ago
    What is that comparison meant to show?
rdtsc 6y ago
> the rapid growth of their electrical grid and large-scale engineering projects (hydroelectric dams, airports, nuclear power, etc) in the post-1945 era was quite rapid. Some of the large construction projects, were built with slave labor. Not all of course, but many where. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Gulag_camps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Gulag_camps. "The Road of Bones" is famous as well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R504_Kolyma_Highway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R504_Kolyma_Highway And while science and engineering was promoted later, during Stalin's time, a lot of intellectuals were purged https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge --- In the 1920s and 1930s, 2,000 writers, intellectuals, and artists were imprisoned and 1,500 died in prisons and concentration camps. After sunspot development research was judged un-Marxist, twenty-seven astronomers disappeared between 1936 and 1938. [...] Official figures put the total number of documentable executions during the years 1937 and 1938 at 681,692,[1][92] in addition to 136,520 deaths in the Gulag;[3] whereas the total estimate of deaths brought about by Soviet repression during the Great Purge ranges from 950,000 to 1.2 million ---
kennxfl 6y ago
They were particularly encouraging of scientific endeavors that contributed to national posterity over other nations and disregarded the rest. Intellectual pursuits in politics and really any criticism of government or social norms could get one easily disappeared.
SiVal 6y ago
The Soviet universities also had Marxist agriculture departments that guaranteed year after year of food shortages due to "bad weather". Anyone who disagreed was purged until only Marxists, whom they defined as the only true "intellectuals", remained. True anti-intellectualism is when you don't allow intellectual debate. It doesn't require emptying the universities entirely. It is sufficient to empty them of anyone who doesn't sufficiently support the mandated opinions. You can then define those politically pure supporters as the "intellectuals" and anyone who doesn't go along with them as, by definition, "anti-intellectual". You then have an anti-intellectual system where intellectual debate has been silenced, but the universities remain open and anyone who disputes their pronouncements is on the outside and is called "anti-intellectual".