5 ms·

I would argue that _none_ of the articles about “hiring is broken” and “interviews are broken” actually help with this problem. There is near-universal consens

by stove 6y ago

I would argue that _none_ of the articles about “hiring is broken” and “interviews are broken” actually help with this problem. There is near-universal consensus that technical hiring is atrocious and yet very few people putting forth possible solutions and/or companies willing to experiment with the status quo. My ideas are: * Real-world interview questions * Standardized testing for "soft" skills. It can be done. * Dedicated onboarding resources * Apprenticeships for entry-level engineers with dedicated training programs * Remove all names from all inbound job applications * Offer _more_ money for internal referrals. Make them on par with what you'd pay a recruiter.

dahart 6y ago
> There is near-universal consensus that technical hiring is atrocious I hear this a lot on Hacker News, but not inside any companies. And when asked why people think it's atrocious, I rarely get a set of answers that agree on the specifics. I'd love to hear more about what metrics show evidence that hiring is atrocious, as well as what is making it atrocious for you. What does that mean in the pre-coronavirus context? Are companies not finding people, and are people not getting jobs? I'm asking honestly and seriously, so I can improve my own hiring practices. I don't doubt there's a problem, I just don't have a handle on exactly what it is, and the reports here on HN aren't matching my own experience. I admit I don't match the profile of the average web developer, so I may be ignorant of what's happening in the broader tech world today, especially regarding recent hires from school. In my own experience interviewing at and hiring for multiple companies over the last 20 years, what I've seen and done matches some of your ideas. We are getting and giving real world interview questions. The interviews are at least somewhat standardized. There are dedicated onboarding resources. I haven't seen names redacted anywhere, and that's a good idea to normalize cultural or gender biases, but problematic if you want people to review your online portfolio, or if you know someone in the company who can vouch for you, both of which many candidates do want. It is my experience that internal referrals have significantly higher chance of success, pay for the candidate is likely to be higher than for external candidates, and referrers are typically rewarded financially for the referral. Many people complain that the referral system is part of the problem under the logic that it can encourage nepotism and echo chamber behavior. I don't fully agree, but I don't think this is as obvious of a win as you suggest either, or that the majority of people would agree with it.
- bluGill 6y ago
  Where I work hr won't let us ask any question that isn't scientificly proven to make a difference. It makes it hard to ask technical questions.
  - dahart 6y ago
    Oh that's fascinating! Can you talk about what questions are scientifically proven to make a difference, and/or the methodology of proving it? I've read bits and pieces here and there, but not seriously followed such research. I imagine that style, specific words, amount of follow-up, and even mood in the room can play important factors here in the "success rates" of certain interview questions...?
    - bluGill 6y ago
      I just ask the prepared questions... That is a good question but I force myself to concentrate on other interesting questions. They have said that if we want a new question added to the list we need a good link controlled experiment : ask a random sample of candidates, don't use the answer, and then evaluate after 6 months if there is a difference between the two groups performance on the job.
  - 908B64B197 6y ago
    If HR is dictating how to conduct interviews for engineering staff, your company has some deep problems.
    - dahart 6y ago
      Care to back that up with any reasons? Engineers are absolutely not immune to cultural and gender biases, the evidence may be pointing the other way, that we currently have greater than average biases in tech. Isn’t oversight likely to make it better, not worse? While it may be a problem to not be able to ask some kinds of technical questions, like the GP comment alluded to, what is wrong with the idea of trying to limit questions to those that are proven to be relevant to candidate performance? This seems similar to how I heard that graduate school performance and success in the sciences doesn’t correlate with GRE math & science scores anywhere near as much as it correlates with the language & writing tests... I wouldn’t be surprised if technical interview questions do not do a good job of identifying who you should hire...

by stove 6y ago

dahart 6y ago

> There is near-universal consensus that technical hiring is atrocious I hear this a lot on Hacker News, but not inside any companies. And when asked why people think it's atrocious, I rarely get a set of answers that agree on the specifics. I'd love to hear more about what metrics show evidence that hiring is atrocious, as well as what is making it atrocious for you. What does that mean in the pre-coronavirus context? Are companies not finding people, and are people not getting jobs? I'm asking honestly and seriously, so I can improve my own hiring practices. I don't doubt there's a problem, I just don't have a handle on exactly what it is, and the reports here on HN aren't matching my own experience. I admit I don't match the profile of the average web developer, so I may be ignorant of what's happening in the broader tech world today, especially regarding recent hires from school. In my own experience interviewing at and hiring for multiple companies over the last 20 years, what I've seen and done matches some of your ideas. We are getting and giving real world interview questions. The interviews are at least somewhat standardized. There are dedicated onboarding resources. I haven't seen names redacted anywhere, and that's a good idea to normalize cultural or gender biases, but problematic if you want people to review your online portfolio, or if you know someone in the company who can vouch for you, both of which many candidates do want. It is my experience that internal referrals have significantly higher chance of success, pay for the candidate is likely to be higher than for external candidates, and referrers are typically rewarded financially for the referral. Many people complain that the referral system is part of the problem under the logic that it can encourage nepotism and echo chamber behavior. I don't fully agree, but I don't think this is as obvious of a win as you suggest either, or that the majority of people would agree with it.

bluGill 6y ago
Where I work hr won't let us ask any question that isn't scientificly proven to make a difference. It makes it hard to ask technical questions.
- dahart 6y ago
  Oh that's fascinating! Can you talk about what questions are scientifically proven to make a difference, and/or the methodology of proving it? I've read bits and pieces here and there, but not seriously followed such research. I imagine that style, specific words, amount of follow-up, and even mood in the room can play important factors here in the "success rates" of certain interview questions...?
  - bluGill 6y ago
    I just ask the prepared questions... That is a good question but I force myself to concentrate on other interesting questions. They have said that if we want a new question added to the list we need a good link controlled experiment : ask a random sample of candidates, don't use the answer, and then evaluate after 6 months if there is a difference between the two groups performance on the job.
- 908B64B197 6y ago
  If HR is dictating how to conduct interviews for engineering staff, your company has some deep problems.
  - dahart 6y ago
    Care to back that up with any reasons? Engineers are absolutely not immune to cultural and gender biases, the evidence may be pointing the other way, that we currently have greater than average biases in tech. Isn’t oversight likely to make it better, not worse? While it may be a problem to not be able to ask some kinds of technical questions, like the GP comment alluded to, what is wrong with the idea of trying to limit questions to those that are proven to be relevant to candidate performance? This seems similar to how I heard that graduate school performance and success in the sciences doesn’t correlate with GRE math & science scores anywhere near as much as it correlates with the language & writing tests... I wouldn’t be surprised if technical interview questions do not do a good job of identifying who you should hire...