7 ms·

I'd encourage you to consider NOT nuking a post/comment just because it gets downvotes. We already have too many people afraid to speak for fear of judgement b

I'd encourage you to consider NOT nuking a post/comment just because it gets downvotes. We already have too many people afraid to speak for fear of judgement by the mob. You're clearly a thoughtful person, and I believe the silent majority out there would appreciate more diversity of opinions.

ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
Thanks. I do value this community, and try to be a good citizen. Like I said, I am trying to make amends. One of the symptoms of that, is that I can come across as "stuffy." Also, I do want to put out a good image of myself, but that can come across as "self-promotion," something I'm downright awful at. I'm also pretty much terrible at relating (tends to come across as "making it all about me"), so it tends to fall flat, when I try.
caymanjim 6y ago
There's also something to be said for owning your disliked comments, for better or worse.
- ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
  I don't like to "just leave them out there." If I can figure out why they are disliked, I may be able to fix them. Here's an example: A couple of days ago, Antirez made this excellent post[0]. I could completely relate. I have been through the same kind of thing. I have created a project for free that is becoming a worldwide standard, but is tiny, and rather pathetic, compared to redis. But I could still relate to what he wrote, and I made a post, saying that. I pointed to my own little project. It immediately started getting downvoted. They were coming fast and furious, so I deleted it. On reflection, I see that it was perceived as being "small-time loser compares himself to tech god." I didn't mean it that way, but I'm a bit "on the spectrum," and aren't always too aware of how I come across. I considered it a lost cause. I nuked it, and wrote a quick "thanks!" post, like everyone else. The fox just wasn't worth the chase. [0] http://antirez.com/news/133 http://antirez.com/news/133
  - yesenadam 6y ago
    Isn't that a little pathetic to write a comment then keep staring at the voting on it?! And then delete it if it gets negative? Be a man, like Eleanor Roosevelt. Write the best comment you can and walk away. Life's too short to obsess over HN voting like that. > They were coming fast and furious All 4 of them? You know can only possibly lose 4 points, right? Also, I noticed that on some topics I know more about than most, the best comments on the page are initially downvoted, then return to the black fairly soon.[0] You may just be penalizing yourself with the panicky deletions. And I'd much rather your comments stay here, if you meant what you said, and what you said and how you said it seemed good to you. Well, maybe you are a real bastard and frequently write horrible comments that should be deleted, but I doubt it. :-) [0] Maybe/probably this happens with every topic, just I can only see it on topics I know best, where I can clearly see which are the good comments and which are plain wrong/ignorant.
    - ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
      I appreciate your point of view, but we do see things differently. For example, I have learned that there's very often many different aspects to others, beyond my shallow "first reaction." Although social media (and media, in general) encourages us to think of others as 1-dimensional "avatars," it has been my experience that every person is a marvelously complex being, with many different facets. Sometimes, it's best for me to just keep my mouth/keyboard shut. Retroactive deletion is not the ideal approach, but I believe that it is better than leaving clearly unsuitable material out there, and I suffer from an overwhelming urge to participate in society, despite my challenges. It might be a good exercise to consider the possibility that I could also have interests in life beyond HN. In fact, I often delete stuff, because it just isn't really important to me that I be heard. I don't live and die by the opinions of others, but it's important to be a member of society, and that means interacting with others in a respectful manner. If what I write does nothing but cause trouble, and I don't really care whether or not anyone likes it, then maybe the world would be a better place without my "wisdom." I see that you also have many interests beyond the technical, so I have to assume that there was some point that you wanted to make, other than what appears to be a rather flaccid insult. I must tender an apology. I don't think I have the capacity to understand your point.
- throw1234651234 6y ago
  Agreed. Dislikes also let you discover funny trends among the people here. For example, if you say meditation doesn't work, that's one. Even though there is evidence that it doesn't, and if you read something like "Altered Traits" by leading meditation research, they essentially admit as much. There are a couple other trigger topics, but I can't remember at this time. Oh, one is asking about salary, but I guess that's sort of understandable.
Barrin92 6y ago
I honestly feel it would be a good idea to remove them. Just let people upvote. There's something disproportionately mean about downvotes. They're not just a lack of upvotes, they're like beating someone up with a stick. They're almost never used for their actual purpose anyway, which is to rank down uninformative or just dumb posts, they always end up being utilized in heated discussions as a way to stick it to whoever someone is arguing with.
- tartoran 6y ago
  I agree that upvotes only would make for a better dynamic with less mob abuse. And, if someone is mean or makes a dumb contribution, being completely ignored is a good lesson, much better than a shower of downvotes without any reason
  - solarkraft 6y ago
    > being completely ignored is a good lesson, much better than a shower of downvotes Downvotes directly lead to a post being ignored, because they get greyed out and eventually die. I consider that a great self-moderation feature. How would you replace that?
    - tartoran 6y ago
      Upvoted comments going up the page and ignored ones dropping down so one has to scroll all the way down to see them.
- ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
  I made a post on SO Meta[0], where I shared a bit of wisdom I learned from teachers: "Encourage the person; discourage the behavior." Seems to have received lukewarm response, but it may be an oversimplified approach to a complex issue. "There's always an easy solution to every human problem; Neat, plausible and wrong." –H. L. Mencken [0] https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/398537/what-can-we-do-to-encourage-downvoting/398760#398760 https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/398537/what-can-we-...
- 6y ago
ghostpepper 6y ago
Maybe it's confirmation bias but it seems that it's getting more and more common to see upvoted posts with the top reply something along the lines of "I don't know this was downvoted ..." followed by a restatement of the OP's comment in a slightly different wording.
- pjc50 6y ago
  Wording matters, a lot. I've even posted a few "I don't know why you're downvoting this when it's correct, and here's why" comments myself.
jjoonathan 6y ago
A comment that draws mob wrath today is likely to retain that ability into the future. Combine this with the increasing popularity of digging up old comments, taking them out of context, stirring a moral panic, and getting someone fired over them, and it becomes pretty clear that unpopular opinions (and adjacent) in the permanent record represent a serious liability that only increases with time and should not be underestimated.
- airstrike 6y ago
  > Combine this with the increasing popularity of digging up old comments, taking them out of context, stirring a moral panic, and getting someone fired over them I hear you loud and clear. Signed up for reddit in 2007 and last week finally decided to run "shreddit" and delete my entire post and comment history from the website. No way I'm letting some comment I made 13 years ago get taken out context and ruin my career or relationships.
  - jonfw 6y ago
    This seems like an exceptionally rare event- for a person to a) have nothing better to do than stalk your comments, going back 13 years, b) be in enough of a position of power that they could use it against you, and c) be irrational enough to not understand how dumb it is to hold a 13y/o internet comment against you. My opinion is this- if somebody wants to stalk my Internet personality, so be it. I'm willing to sacrifice those relationships. I guess the problem would be if I ended up with some leadership/management position and a subordinate saw it?
    - thristian 6y ago
      > This seems like an exceptionally rare event A global pandemic is also an exceptionally rare event, yet it's wise to be prepared for such things because sometimes they happen. As for "be in a position of power", there's a lot of websites with enough SEO to show up in the first page of Google results for your name. How much do you care about what potential employers/co-workers/business partners/romantic partners think of you? For "be irrational enough", just look at any click-bait headline or random sampling of tweets. There's a lot of people in this world who are quite happy to take things at face-value without thinking too hard.
carapace 6y ago
There are several places where comments here are archived in near-real-time. Deleting a comment here is a signal, not an actual "no one can ever see it again" deletion.

ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago

Thanks. I do value this community, and try to be a good citizen. Like I said, I am trying to make amends. One of the symptoms of that, is that I can come across as "stuffy." Also, I do want to put out a good image of myself, but that can come across as "self-promotion," something I'm downright awful at. I'm also pretty much terrible at relating (tends to come across as "making it all about me"), so it tends to fall flat, when I try.

caymanjim 6y ago

There's also something to be said for owning your disliked comments, for better or worse.

ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
I don't like to "just leave them out there." If I can figure out why they are disliked, I may be able to fix them. Here's an example: A couple of days ago, Antirez made this excellent post[0]. I could completely relate. I have been through the same kind of thing. I have created a project for free that is becoming a worldwide standard, but is tiny, and rather pathetic, compared to redis. But I could still relate to what he wrote, and I made a post, saying that. I pointed to my own little project. It immediately started getting downvoted. They were coming fast and furious, so I deleted it. On reflection, I see that it was perceived as being "small-time loser compares himself to tech god." I didn't mean it that way, but I'm a bit "on the spectrum," and aren't always too aware of how I come across. I considered it a lost cause. I nuked it, and wrote a quick "thanks!" post, like everyone else. The fox just wasn't worth the chase. [0] http://antirez.com/news/133 http://antirez.com/news/133
- yesenadam 6y ago
  Isn't that a little pathetic to write a comment then keep staring at the voting on it?! And then delete it if it gets negative? Be a man, like Eleanor Roosevelt. Write the best comment you can and walk away. Life's too short to obsess over HN voting like that. > They were coming fast and furious All 4 of them? You know can only possibly lose 4 points, right? Also, I noticed that on some topics I know more about than most, the best comments on the page are initially downvoted, then return to the black fairly soon.[0] You may just be penalizing yourself with the panicky deletions. And I'd much rather your comments stay here, if you meant what you said, and what you said and how you said it seemed good to you. Well, maybe you are a real bastard and frequently write horrible comments that should be deleted, but I doubt it. :-) [0] Maybe/probably this happens with every topic, just I can only see it on topics I know best, where I can clearly see which are the good comments and which are plain wrong/ignorant.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
    I appreciate your point of view, but we do see things differently. For example, I have learned that there's very often many different aspects to others, beyond my shallow "first reaction." Although social media (and media, in general) encourages us to think of others as 1-dimensional "avatars," it has been my experience that every person is a marvelously complex being, with many different facets. Sometimes, it's best for me to just keep my mouth/keyboard shut. Retroactive deletion is not the ideal approach, but I believe that it is better than leaving clearly unsuitable material out there, and I suffer from an overwhelming urge to participate in society, despite my challenges. It might be a good exercise to consider the possibility that I could also have interests in life beyond HN. In fact, I often delete stuff, because it just isn't really important to me that I be heard. I don't live and die by the opinions of others, but it's important to be a member of society, and that means interacting with others in a respectful manner. If what I write does nothing but cause trouble, and I don't really care whether or not anyone likes it, then maybe the world would be a better place without my "wisdom." I see that you also have many interests beyond the technical, so I have to assume that there was some point that you wanted to make, other than what appears to be a rather flaccid insult. I must tender an apology. I don't think I have the capacity to understand your point.
throw1234651234 6y ago
Agreed. Dislikes also let you discover funny trends among the people here. For example, if you say meditation doesn't work, that's one. Even though there is evidence that it doesn't, and if you read something like "Altered Traits" by leading meditation research, they essentially admit as much. There are a couple other trigger topics, but I can't remember at this time. Oh, one is asking about salary, but I guess that's sort of understandable.

Barrin92 6y ago

I honestly feel it would be a good idea to remove them. Just let people upvote. There's something disproportionately mean about downvotes. They're not just a lack of upvotes, they're like beating someone up with a stick. They're almost never used for their actual purpose anyway, which is to rank down uninformative or just dumb posts, they always end up being utilized in heated discussions as a way to stick it to whoever someone is arguing with.

tartoran 6y ago
I agree that upvotes only would make for a better dynamic with less mob abuse. And, if someone is mean or makes a dumb contribution, being completely ignored is a good lesson, much better than a shower of downvotes without any reason
- solarkraft 6y ago
  > being completely ignored is a good lesson, much better than a shower of downvotes Downvotes directly lead to a post being ignored, because they get greyed out and eventually die. I consider that a great self-moderation feature. How would you replace that?
  - tartoran 6y ago
    Upvoted comments going up the page and ignored ones dropping down so one has to scroll all the way down to see them.
ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
I made a post on SO Meta[0], where I shared a bit of wisdom I learned from teachers: "Encourage the person; discourage the behavior." Seems to have received lukewarm response, but it may be an oversimplified approach to a complex issue. "There's always an easy solution to every human problem; Neat, plausible and wrong." –H. L. Mencken [0] https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/398537/what-can-we-do-to-encourage-downvoting/398760#398760 https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/398537/what-can-we-...
6y ago

ghostpepper 6y ago

Maybe it's confirmation bias but it seems that it's getting more and more common to see upvoted posts with the top reply something along the lines of "I don't know this was downvoted ..." followed by a restatement of the OP's comment in a slightly different wording.

pjc50 6y ago
Wording matters, a lot. I've even posted a few "I don't know why you're downvoting this when it's correct, and here's why" comments myself.

jjoonathan 6y ago

A comment that draws mob wrath today is likely to retain that ability into the future. Combine this with the increasing popularity of digging up old comments, taking them out of context, stirring a moral panic, and getting someone fired over them, and it becomes pretty clear that unpopular opinions (and adjacent) in the permanent record represent a serious liability that only increases with time and should not be underestimated.

airstrike 6y ago
> Combine this with the increasing popularity of digging up old comments, taking them out of context, stirring a moral panic, and getting someone fired over them I hear you loud and clear. Signed up for reddit in 2007 and last week finally decided to run "shreddit" and delete my entire post and comment history from the website. No way I'm letting some comment I made 13 years ago get taken out context and ruin my career or relationships.
- jonfw 6y ago
  This seems like an exceptionally rare event- for a person to a) have nothing better to do than stalk your comments, going back 13 years, b) be in enough of a position of power that they could use it against you, and c) be irrational enough to not understand how dumb it is to hold a 13y/o internet comment against you. My opinion is this- if somebody wants to stalk my Internet personality, so be it. I'm willing to sacrifice those relationships. I guess the problem would be if I ended up with some leadership/management position and a subordinate saw it?
  - thristian 6y ago
    > This seems like an exceptionally rare event A global pandemic is also an exceptionally rare event, yet it's wise to be prepared for such things because sometimes they happen. As for "be in a position of power", there's a lot of websites with enough SEO to show up in the first page of Google results for your name. How much do you care about what potential employers/co-workers/business partners/romantic partners think of you? For "be irrational enough", just look at any click-bait headline or random sampling of tweets. There's a lot of people in this world who are quite happy to take things at face-value without thinking too hard.

carapace 6y ago

There are several places where comments here are archived in near-real-time. Deleting a comment here is a signal, not an actual "no one can ever see it again" deletion.