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The US is filling the role of the Roman Empire, securing trade routes to allow efficient scales of tech expertise and production. If that military is scaled bac

The US is filling the role of the Roman Empire, securing trade routes to allow efficient scales of tech expertise and production. If that military is scaled back or shown to be obsolete/ineffectual, then globalism itself will come into question. The dark ages were caused by the localizing of production, with local feifdoms losing access to specialized technical expertise. To some extent, this is what we see now with companies moving produuction back to North America.

Melting_Harps 6y ago
> The US is filling the role of the Roman Empire Yeah, and look how that ended. In fact, its entirely apt cautionary tale because due to taxes and an ever increasing cost of living in Rome proper citizen-soldiers (during the Republic) often went bankrupt and fell into destitute while fighting campaigns from Rome's conquest and returned to see the oligarchy take their fields/land and displaced them further and further out of Rome. This is the story of Tiberius and Gaius Gracchus, direct descendants of Scipio Africanus (the illustrious Soldier and Savior of the Roman Republic) and the Land/Ag Plebeian reforms they achieved that cost them both their lives after several stints in Politics. It got to a point that due to land consolidation that it was less expensive to buy the wheat from Egypt, have it transported by boat, and used (often slave labour) to bake the bread then it was to buy a loaf locally. My old History professor went on an amazing rant about this for an hour in one of my Roman History courses when we were discussing the true costs of Imperial Expansion and what is often swept under the rug as a footnote in History, she was old but still pissed because they didn't let her include it in her book. The World now is ever more interconnected than ever, and one could argue why that is a horrible trade-off both for national security purposes but also for self-reliance reasons as we saw with the PPE shortage and the faulty equipment that came from China. But I fail to see how the West at least would abandon the critical supply chains they have developed in order for Society to function unless we have something like an asteroid collision. Even now the EU as well as Australia, and New Zealand are siding with the US' stance on punishing the CCP's Security Law in Hong Kong that is going to undo the relationship that served as an access point into China via a neutral party. Are you seriously suggesting that if the US empire scaled back its efforts in those regions then we'd return to the dark ages? Because when I was in Europe Somali pirates were hi-jacking oil tankers and the US didn't intervene, it took the European companies and military to put an end to that entirely by themselves without the need of US involvement. I think the US is headed for the same fate as Rome as it refuses to learn the same lessons, but if given the choice between China or the US as the Global Superpower I think its the latter that must retain its position as the former is hellbent on a suicidal mission that destroys everything in its path and will commit horrible acts of barbarism and won't hesitate to take the whole World down with it in its folly (see recent cases: Xianjing, Wuhan, Hong Kong and Beijing). I just hope we can attain a position where the World doesn't need superpowers and can return to at least a mutually beneficial city-state model as COVID has proven we cannot really overcome such huge issues like pandemics (or likely wide scale famines or global catastrophes) at such a scale. I mean governing 300+ million People is hard to conceptualize, but with Nation-States like China and India where it goes into the billions is just unfathomable and failure is the only real outcome in that. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODI1VOOoey0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODI1VOOoey0
- candiddevmike 6y ago
  If the above, abridged history of Rome interests you, check out the podcast The History of Rome by Mike Duncan.
  - Melting_Harps 6y ago
    > If the above, abridged history of Rome interests you, check out the podcast The History of Rome by Mike Duncan. Thanks, I'll check it out. I don't have any apple products, so don't have an account on the Apple Store but I saw he has a youtube channel.
- philwelch 6y ago
  > Are you seriously suggesting that if the US empire scaled back its efforts in those regions then we'd return to the dark ages? No, we’d probably return to the era of world wars. > Because when I was in Europe Somali pirates were hi-jacking oil tankers and the US didn't intervene, it took the European companies and military to put an end to that entirely by themselves without the need of US involvement. What? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_off_the_coast_of_Somalia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_off_the_coast_of_Soma... : > In the late 2000s, anti-piracy coalition known as Combined Task Force 150, including 33 different nations, established a Maritime Security Patrol Area in the Gulf of Aden. By 2010, these patrols were paying off, with a steady drop in the number of incidents. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Task_Force_150 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Task_Force_150 : > Countries presently contributing to CTF-150 include Australia, Canada, Denmark,[1] France, Pakistan, Japan, Germany, the United Kingdom and the United States. Other nations who have participated include Italy, India, Malaysia, Netherlands, New Zealand, Portugal, Singapore, Spain, Thailand and Turkey. The command of the task force rotates among the different participating navies, with commands usually lasting between four and six months. The task force usually comprises 14 or 15 ships.[2] CTF-150 is coordinated by the Combined Maritime Forces (CMF), a 33-nation coalition operating from the US Navy base in Manama, Bahrain. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Task_Force_151 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Task_Force_151 : > On 8 January 2009, at the United States Fifth Fleet headquarters in Manama, Bahrain, Vice Admiral William E. Gortney, USN, announced the formation of CTF-151 to combat the piracy threat off Somalia, with Rear Admiral Terence E. McKnight in command. > I just hope we can attain a position where the World doesn't need superpowers and can return to at least a mutually beneficial city-state model That will mean war. Within a single country, government serves the purpose of providing a monopoly on the legitimate use of force. This monopoly is an impediment for the otherwise random violence people would live under. Internationally, the same is true for superpowers.
x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago
So only the US by virtue of "something" has a vested interest in globalism?
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago
  > only the US by virtue of "something" has a vested interest in globalism? It’s a tragedy of the commons. That said, I believe we could protect this common with 2/3 the current military budget, maybe half.

Melting_Harps 6y ago

> The US is filling the role of the Roman Empire Yeah, and look how that ended. In fact, its entirely apt cautionary tale because due to taxes and an ever increasing cost of living in Rome proper citizen-soldiers (during the Republic) often went bankrupt and fell into destitute while fighting campaigns from Rome's conquest and returned to see the oligarchy take their fields/land and displaced them further and further out of Rome. This is the story of Tiberius and Gaius Gracchus, direct descendants of Scipio Africanus (the illustrious Soldier and Savior of the Roman Republic) and the Land/Ag Plebeian reforms they achieved that cost them both their lives after several stints in Politics. It got to a point that due to land consolidation that it was less expensive to buy the wheat from Egypt, have it transported by boat, and used (often slave labour) to bake the bread then it was to buy a loaf locally. My old History professor went on an amazing rant about this for an hour in one of my Roman History courses when we were discussing the true costs of Imperial Expansion and what is often swept under the rug as a footnote in History, she was old but still pissed because they didn't let her include it in her book. The World now is ever more interconnected than ever, and one could argue why that is a horrible trade-off both for national security purposes but also for self-reliance reasons as we saw with the PPE shortage and the faulty equipment that came from China. But I fail to see how the West at least would abandon the critical supply chains they have developed in order for Society to function unless we have something like an asteroid collision. Even now the EU as well as Australia, and New Zealand are siding with the US' stance on punishing the CCP's Security Law in Hong Kong that is going to undo the relationship that served as an access point into China via a neutral party. Are you seriously suggesting that if the US empire scaled back its efforts in those regions then we'd return to the dark ages? Because when I was in Europe Somali pirates were hi-jacking oil tankers and the US didn't intervene, it took the European companies and military to put an end to that entirely by themselves without the need of US involvement. I think the US is headed for the same fate as Rome as it refuses to learn the same lessons, but if given the choice between China or the US as the Global Superpower I think its the latter that must retain its position as the former is hellbent on a suicidal mission that destroys everything in its path and will commit horrible acts of barbarism and won't hesitate to take the whole World down with it in its folly (see recent cases: Xianjing, Wuhan, Hong Kong and Beijing). I just hope we can attain a position where the World doesn't need superpowers and can return to at least a mutually beneficial city-state model as COVID has proven we cannot really overcome such huge issues like pandemics (or likely wide scale famines or global catastrophes) at such a scale. I mean governing 300+ million People is hard to conceptualize, but with Nation-States like China and India where it goes into the billions is just unfathomable and failure is the only real outcome in that. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODI1VOOoey0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODI1VOOoey0

candiddevmike 6y ago
If the above, abridged history of Rome interests you, check out the podcast The History of Rome by Mike Duncan.
- Melting_Harps 6y ago
  > If the above, abridged history of Rome interests you, check out the podcast The History of Rome by Mike Duncan. Thanks, I'll check it out. I don't have any apple products, so don't have an account on the Apple Store but I saw he has a youtube channel.
philwelch 6y ago
> Are you seriously suggesting that if the US empire scaled back its efforts in those regions then we'd return to the dark ages? No, we’d probably return to the era of world wars. > Because when I was in Europe Somali pirates were hi-jacking oil tankers and the US didn't intervene, it took the European companies and military to put an end to that entirely by themselves without the need of US involvement. What? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_off_the_coast_of_Somalia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_off_the_coast_of_Soma... : > In the late 2000s, anti-piracy coalition known as Combined Task Force 150, including 33 different nations, established a Maritime Security Patrol Area in the Gulf of Aden. By 2010, these patrols were paying off, with a steady drop in the number of incidents. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Task_Force_150 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Task_Force_150 : > Countries presently contributing to CTF-150 include Australia, Canada, Denmark,[1] France, Pakistan, Japan, Germany, the United Kingdom and the United States. Other nations who have participated include Italy, India, Malaysia, Netherlands, New Zealand, Portugal, Singapore, Spain, Thailand and Turkey. The command of the task force rotates among the different participating navies, with commands usually lasting between four and six months. The task force usually comprises 14 or 15 ships.[2] CTF-150 is coordinated by the Combined Maritime Forces (CMF), a 33-nation coalition operating from the US Navy base in Manama, Bahrain. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Task_Force_151 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Task_Force_151 : > On 8 January 2009, at the United States Fifth Fleet headquarters in Manama, Bahrain, Vice Admiral William E. Gortney, USN, announced the formation of CTF-151 to combat the piracy threat off Somalia, with Rear Admiral Terence E. McKnight in command. > I just hope we can attain a position where the World doesn't need superpowers and can return to at least a mutually beneficial city-state model That will mean war. Within a single country, government serves the purpose of providing a monopoly on the legitimate use of force. This monopoly is an impediment for the otherwise random violence people would live under. Internationally, the same is true for superpowers.

x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago

So only the US by virtue of "something" has a vested interest in globalism?

JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> only the US by virtue of "something" has a vested interest in globalism? It’s a tragedy of the commons. That said, I believe we could protect this common with 2/3 the current military budget, maybe half.