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As far as I'm concerned, if quarantine is the "answer" then the cure is worse than the disease. In fact, I'd take this as evidence that quarantine might have b

As far as I'm concerned, if quarantine is the "answer" then the cure is worse than the disease. In fact, I'd take this as evidence that quarantine might have been a mistake.

troughway 6y ago
I don't agree with the "cure is worse than the disease". Have a look at this - https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus... Suppose that we quarantine people for longer while a vaccine is found, and suppose this vaccine is fairly effective. Presently there are 120,000 deaths. Who knows what this number will rise to. This number is already with some quarantine measurements in place. If a vaccine is not found, you're bound to have a catastrophe on your hands. So let's hope that one is found so that we can resume things in some "normal" way again. Whether or not you quarantined, the economy would collapse because you would have a massive death toll and paranoia throughout the country. People would stop going out, they would stop spending money and they would hunker down regardless. Economic turmoil is a positive feedback loop. The coronavirus or the quarantine are just the triggers for it to begin. This cannot be overstated. At least with a vaccine, you can get out of this by the skin of your teeth and reduce the over all deaths. So no, I don't think that quarantining to save lives is the "cure is worse than the disease" scenario. The economy would have collapsed regardless.
- klmadfejno 6y ago
  > Whether or not you quarantined, the economy would collapse because you would have a massive death toll and paranoia throughout the country. Citation needed. Plenty of economies have dealt with mass death and gotten along fine. This particular threat is also largely centered on the elderly who are, in coldly economic viewpoints, drains on the economy rather than contributors. I don't particularly think the quarantine was a mistake, but you have to acknowledge that it is a gamble. Betting policy on a miracle vaccine is a bad idea. They might not work, or they might be short lived. Turning the economy on and off with lifted and then reinstated lockdowns is a bad idea.
  - fzeroracer 6y ago
    Which economies exactly are you referring to that have dealt with mass death and came out unscathed?
  - DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
    > Betting policy on a miracle vaccine is a bad idea. There are several promising vaccines that are already fairly far along in development. One of them (the Sinovac vaccine candidate) is going into Phase III trials as we speak. Throwing away hundreds of thousands of lives when a vaccine might be available within months is just a terribly cold-hearted thing to do. Add to that the fact that many countries have now suppressed the epidemic and have partially reopened, and the US response to the pandemic makes even less sense.
    - redis_mlc 6y ago
      > There are several promising vaccines that are already fairly far along in development. Hope is not a plan. What if they don't get approved?
- alexandercrohde 6y ago
  According to that article, those vaccines are on track for next year, which I believe is a year too late. >> Whether or not you quarantined, the economy would collapse because you would have a massive death toll and paranoia throughout the country. Lol, what? 1/3rd of the covid deaths have been nursing-home patients. Covid basically doubles your odds of dying in a given year. So it'd be like 2 years worth of people died in 1 year (and importantly, mostly retired people), so no, not a societal collapse.
theshadowknows 6y ago
Chilling at home is worse strangling to death on your own blood? My friend you may need to do some work on your home life.
- alexandercrohde 6y ago
  Damaging the economy to the tune of 2 trillion in bailouts, the cost of the war in Iraq, just to have the exact same number of deaths delayed by 4 months is inexcusable. And you should be ashamed of your self-righteous and dishonest argument style.
  - cylinder 6y ago
    Why do you struggle with staying home so much? What exactly are you missing? You can socialise at home, and maintain distance easily. You can still do outdoor activities. It's basically concerts, sporting events, restaurants and bars? Are these really that important to you? Americans live on average in the largest homes in the world, so there should be no real problem with this. These things are NOT the entire economy, and large parts of the economy will continue with people avoiding these types of enviornments.
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
    The delay in deaths is due to the impotent response by many elected leaders, and the propaganda they've used to support their asinine decisions. The cost is due to officials using a crisis to benefit themselves. Only people should be bailed out. Let the free market take care of companies that have leveraged themselves off the cliff.
  - fzeroracer 6y ago
    Except it's not the same number of deaths? And as another poster noted, immunity might be shortly conferred. In which case when will we learn that managing this virus is a good idea? The third wave? Fourth? Maybe the fifth? And it's ironic that you chastise the poster for his self-righteous argumentative style when your post history indicates you seem to do the same.
  - 6y ago
_bxg1 6y ago
Masks give you a significant portion of the benefit of quarantining, with virtually none of the economic cost. And yet we have protests happening against wearing masks all across the south. That's the hill people have (literally) decided to die on.
- Fjolsvith 6y ago
  > That's the hill people have (literally) decided to die on. Only about half of a percent of them.
- aeternum 6y ago
  The media and many others decided it was more important to focus on the fact that the president is choosing not to wear a mask rather than on the health benefits of wearing a mask. It was a stupid thing to do on both sides, but now it's political and there's no going back.
davesque 6y ago
In a way, I can sympathize with this viewpoint. However, (and this may very well not apply to you) what shocks me is how often it comes packaged with a resistance to wearing masks, washing hands, social distancing or otherwise doing anything to acknowledge the dangerous situation that we're all now living in. It seems like we should be able to get a lot more mileage out of those simple behaviors that stop short of a full lockdown.
loktarogar 6y ago
Only if you took this information on its own. Compare it to every other first world country that has implemented proper quarantine. And also realise that what you're saying is that you advocate for a modeled 2 million deaths.
- alexandercrohde 6y ago
  >And also realise that what you're saying is that you advocate for a modeled 2 million deaths. So far as I know, there's no evidence that now that quarantine is over the same number of people aren't going to get it anyways and the deaths will be equal.
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
    Quarantine should have been managed at the federal level. Instead we have seen 50 states each acting like their own country despite their codependence with, a paralyzed, executive and legislative branches. Had the us acted in January this would have blown over with few deaths. These lost lives now should weigh on the minds of our elected officials who resisted quarantine, who used this crisis for personal gain, who diminished the severity, etc. Quarantine may be over in some places but strong restrictions are still exist in many. Which is more evidence for why pandemic response should have a top down coordination team. Deaths may equal out to worst case predictions, in which case all of America failed.
  - cylinder 6y ago
    There is no such thing as people who are "going to get it anyways."
  - loktarogar 6y ago
    it's not "get it anyways", they're going to get it because the quarantine is over. Early lifting of the lockdown combined with things like people unwilling to wear masks and social distance themselves is going to render the benefits of the lockdown useless. America wasted the quarantine. The last few months have been rendered meaningless. That's not the case in other first world countries.
  - 6y ago
fzeroracer 6y ago
This viewpoint is rather funny, because it looks like soon countries will start barring US travelers due to our own reckless abandon. Do you take into consideration how our reaction to the disease might affect us on a more global scale? Because I wonder if people who had the same thought about banning all travel to/from China will have the same consistent viewpoint when it becomes banning all travelers from the US.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

As far as I'm concerned, if quarantine is the "answer" then the cure is worse than the disease. In fact, I'd take this as evidence that quarantine might have been a mistake.

troughway 6y ago

I don't agree with the "cure is worse than the disease". Have a look at this - https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus... Suppose that we quarantine people for longer while a vaccine is found, and suppose this vaccine is fairly effective. Presently there are 120,000 deaths. Who knows what this number will rise to. This number is already with some quarantine measurements in place. If a vaccine is not found, you're bound to have a catastrophe on your hands. So let's hope that one is found so that we can resume things in some "normal" way again. Whether or not you quarantined, the economy would collapse because you would have a massive death toll and paranoia throughout the country. People would stop going out, they would stop spending money and they would hunker down regardless. Economic turmoil is a positive feedback loop. The coronavirus or the quarantine are just the triggers for it to begin. This cannot be overstated. At least with a vaccine, you can get out of this by the skin of your teeth and reduce the over all deaths. So no, I don't think that quarantining to save lives is the "cure is worse than the disease" scenario. The economy would have collapsed regardless.

klmadfejno 6y ago
> Whether or not you quarantined, the economy would collapse because you would have a massive death toll and paranoia throughout the country. Citation needed. Plenty of economies have dealt with mass death and gotten along fine. This particular threat is also largely centered on the elderly who are, in coldly economic viewpoints, drains on the economy rather than contributors. I don't particularly think the quarantine was a mistake, but you have to acknowledge that it is a gamble. Betting policy on a miracle vaccine is a bad idea. They might not work, or they might be short lived. Turning the economy on and off with lifted and then reinstated lockdowns is a bad idea.
- fzeroracer 6y ago
  Which economies exactly are you referring to that have dealt with mass death and came out unscathed?
- DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
  > Betting policy on a miracle vaccine is a bad idea. There are several promising vaccines that are already fairly far along in development. One of them (the Sinovac vaccine candidate) is going into Phase III trials as we speak. Throwing away hundreds of thousands of lives when a vaccine might be available within months is just a terribly cold-hearted thing to do. Add to that the fact that many countries have now suppressed the epidemic and have partially reopened, and the US response to the pandemic makes even less sense.
  - redis_mlc 6y ago
    > There are several promising vaccines that are already fairly far along in development. Hope is not a plan. What if they don't get approved?
alexandercrohde 6y ago
According to that article, those vaccines are on track for next year, which I believe is a year too late. >> Whether or not you quarantined, the economy would collapse because you would have a massive death toll and paranoia throughout the country. Lol, what? 1/3rd of the covid deaths have been nursing-home patients. Covid basically doubles your odds of dying in a given year. So it'd be like 2 years worth of people died in 1 year (and importantly, mostly retired people), so no, not a societal collapse.

theshadowknows 6y ago

Chilling at home is worse strangling to death on your own blood? My friend you may need to do some work on your home life.

alexandercrohde 6y ago
Damaging the economy to the tune of 2 trillion in bailouts, the cost of the war in Iraq, just to have the exact same number of deaths delayed by 4 months is inexcusable. And you should be ashamed of your self-righteous and dishonest argument style.
- cylinder 6y ago
  Why do you struggle with staying home so much? What exactly are you missing? You can socialise at home, and maintain distance easily. You can still do outdoor activities. It's basically concerts, sporting events, restaurants and bars? Are these really that important to you? Americans live on average in the largest homes in the world, so there should be no real problem with this. These things are NOT the entire economy, and large parts of the economy will continue with people avoiding these types of enviornments.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
  The delay in deaths is due to the impotent response by many elected leaders, and the propaganda they've used to support their asinine decisions. The cost is due to officials using a crisis to benefit themselves. Only people should be bailed out. Let the free market take care of companies that have leveraged themselves off the cliff.
- fzeroracer 6y ago
  Except it's not the same number of deaths? And as another poster noted, immunity might be shortly conferred. In which case when will we learn that managing this virus is a good idea? The third wave? Fourth? Maybe the fifth? And it's ironic that you chastise the poster for his self-righteous argumentative style when your post history indicates you seem to do the same.
- 6y ago

_bxg1 6y ago

Masks give you a significant portion of the benefit of quarantining, with virtually none of the economic cost. And yet we have protests happening against wearing masks all across the south. That's the hill people have (literally) decided to die on.

Fjolsvith 6y ago
> That's the hill people have (literally) decided to die on. Only about half of a percent of them.
aeternum 6y ago
The media and many others decided it was more important to focus on the fact that the president is choosing not to wear a mask rather than on the health benefits of wearing a mask. It was a stupid thing to do on both sides, but now it's political and there's no going back.

davesque 6y ago

In a way, I can sympathize with this viewpoint. However, (and this may very well not apply to you) what shocks me is how often it comes packaged with a resistance to wearing masks, washing hands, social distancing or otherwise doing anything to acknowledge the dangerous situation that we're all now living in. It seems like we should be able to get a lot more mileage out of those simple behaviors that stop short of a full lockdown.

loktarogar 6y ago

Only if you took this information on its own. Compare it to every other first world country that has implemented proper quarantine. And also realise that what you're saying is that you advocate for a modeled 2 million deaths.

alexandercrohde 6y ago
>And also realise that what you're saying is that you advocate for a modeled 2 million deaths. So far as I know, there's no evidence that now that quarantine is over the same number of people aren't going to get it anyways and the deaths will be equal.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
  Quarantine should have been managed at the federal level. Instead we have seen 50 states each acting like their own country despite their codependence with, a paralyzed, executive and legislative branches. Had the us acted in January this would have blown over with few deaths. These lost lives now should weigh on the minds of our elected officials who resisted quarantine, who used this crisis for personal gain, who diminished the severity, etc. Quarantine may be over in some places but strong restrictions are still exist in many. Which is more evidence for why pandemic response should have a top down coordination team. Deaths may equal out to worst case predictions, in which case all of America failed.
- cylinder 6y ago
  There is no such thing as people who are "going to get it anyways."
- loktarogar 6y ago
  it's not "get it anyways", they're going to get it because the quarantine is over. Early lifting of the lockdown combined with things like people unwilling to wear masks and social distance themselves is going to render the benefits of the lockdown useless. America wasted the quarantine. The last few months have been rendered meaningless. That's not the case in other first world countries.
- 6y ago

fzeroracer 6y ago

This viewpoint is rather funny, because it looks like soon countries will start barring US travelers due to our own reckless abandon. Do you take into consideration how our reaction to the disease might affect us on a more global scale? Because I wonder if people who had the same thought about banning all travel to/from China will have the same consistent viewpoint when it becomes banning all travelers from the US.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]