22 ms·

There was an NYT article saying ventilators only give a 12% additional survival rate. This is the service hospitals provide. Sure oxygen can be given at a hosp

There was an NYT article saying ventilators only give a 12% additional survival rate. This is the service hospitals provide. Sure oxygen can be given at a hospital, but if we are overwhelmed, you can easily do oxygen at home. Anyone have a different understanding?

pas 6y ago
My understanding is that just the most severe cases are put on ventilation, and understandably alas a lot of those people die. But the overall effectiveness of intensive care and general hospitalization is likely much higher, but I haven't seen a chart about this.
jhayward 6y ago
There are many more therapies than just oxygen that hospitalized patients receive. Lots of monitoring of e.g., blood values that indicate stress on one organ or another, or danger of crisis due to many different processes. Drug therapy and supportive treatments are varied in response to those. It's not as simple as "welcome to Wendy's, would you like the oxygen today, or can we supersize you to a ventilator?"
jschwartzi 6y ago
I'm not sure what you're arguing for here. There's a very short period of time between when a patient starts drowning in their own fluids and when they die. So you need to be oxygenating in a clinical setting because you need people immediately available to intubate in case your oxygenated patient starts drowning in their own fluids, which they do often. That's why it confers a 12% survival rate. If you've progressed to the point where supplemental oxygen doesn't work then you're pretty close to dying. I'll take 12% over 0% any day of the week. As always you should look past the statistics to what actually needs to happen in those situations. Statistics provide very little assistance in determining whether an individual patient needs to be hospitalized or not. You can't look at someone and go "oh this guy is one of the X% that will eventually need a ventilator." You have to assume that any one patient that needs supplemental oxygen may be one of that X%. So sending people home with supplemental oxygen should be a last-ditch effort if the hospitals become completely overwhelmed, not a routine activity. And to facilitate that, we should absolutely be trying to keep people from getting sick so our hospitals remain open for the unavoidable cases.
glofish 6y ago
the stat that I read was that 86% of people put on ventilators die as for those that survive - most have serious breathing problems for the rest of their lives - https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200415/ventilators-helping-or-harming-covid-19-patients#1 https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200415/ventilators-helping...
dillondoyle 6y ago
Lots of strokes and other complications that can only be treated in a hospital. I haven't seen data on successful intervention there though (or maybe that it overlaps largely with the already low survivability).
kaitai 6y ago
Cardiac arrest is a significant "side effect" of COVID-19, leading to death. Hospitals are better equipped for that. Kidney problems are popping up in some folks post-infection; that's also better dealt with in a hospital.

pas 6y ago

My understanding is that just the most severe cases are put on ventilation, and understandably alas a lot of those people die. But the overall effectiveness of intensive care and general hospitalization is likely much higher, but I haven't seen a chart about this.

jhayward 6y ago

There are many more therapies than just oxygen that hospitalized patients receive. Lots of monitoring of e.g., blood values that indicate stress on one organ or another, or danger of crisis due to many different processes. Drug therapy and supportive treatments are varied in response to those. It's not as simple as "welcome to Wendy's, would you like the oxygen today, or can we supersize you to a ventilator?"

jschwartzi 6y ago

I'm not sure what you're arguing for here. There's a very short period of time between when a patient starts drowning in their own fluids and when they die. So you need to be oxygenating in a clinical setting because you need people immediately available to intubate in case your oxygenated patient starts drowning in their own fluids, which they do often. That's why it confers a 12% survival rate. If you've progressed to the point where supplemental oxygen doesn't work then you're pretty close to dying. I'll take 12% over 0% any day of the week. As always you should look past the statistics to what actually needs to happen in those situations. Statistics provide very little assistance in determining whether an individual patient needs to be hospitalized or not. You can't look at someone and go "oh this guy is one of the X% that will eventually need a ventilator." You have to assume that any one patient that needs supplemental oxygen may be one of that X%. So sending people home with supplemental oxygen should be a last-ditch effort if the hospitals become completely overwhelmed, not a routine activity. And to facilitate that, we should absolutely be trying to keep people from getting sick so our hospitals remain open for the unavoidable cases.

glofish 6y ago

the stat that I read was that 86% of people put on ventilators die as for those that survive - most have serious breathing problems for the rest of their lives - https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200415/ventilators-helping-or-harming-covid-19-patients#1 https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200415/ventilators-helping...

dillondoyle 6y ago

Lots of strokes and other complications that can only be treated in a hospital. I haven't seen data on successful intervention there though (or maybe that it overlaps largely with the already low survivability).

kaitai 6y ago

Cardiac arrest is a significant "side effect" of COVID-19, leading to death. Hospitals are better equipped for that. Kidney problems are popping up in some folks post-infection; that's also better dealt with in a hospital.