6 ms·

Knowing the business. If we ask a bunch of questions and they have the answers at their fingertips because they understand the domain really well, that's a good

by ccc3 16y ago

Knowing the business. If we ask a bunch of questions and they have the answers at their fingertips because they understand the domain really well, that's a good sign. An old boss of mine is a design judge for a student engineering competition. Often times he will ask a team for a specific piece of information about their project, only to have the team pull out a giant binder and start shuffling through looking for the answer. At this point he tells them "If I ask you to tell me your girlfriends phone number and you pull out your phone book and start searching for it, you're probably not in love" I think the same sentiment applies here

corin_ 16y ago
I love the comparison, but I would imagine that due to mobile phones and contact lists, it's quite possible to be in love without knowing any phone numbers. Personally I know the numbers of the (at a guess) 20 people I call most often, but I always assumed that, in 2011, I'm the exception not the rule. Not particularly relevant, his point stands either way, just interested to know if other people on HN still find themselves memorising phone numbers.
- Jebdm 16y ago
  The only numbers I know are the ones that haven't changed since before I was a teenager (basically just my parents' numbers and 911), my own Google Voice number, and Bing 411. That's partially because I can always look up numbers in my contacts, on Facebook, or online, and partially because I make phone calls less than once a week.
  - pavel_lishin 16y ago
    I don't bother remembering a phone number, unless calling that number will result in the person on the other end bailing me out of jail. So far, 100% success rate.
    - lanstein 16y ago
      wrt being bailed out of jail?
  - sankyo 16y ago
    in 2011 we do not know phone numbers anymore, but those braincells now store passwords.
- cydonian_monk 16y ago
  I don't directly remember any new numbers, but I know how the DTMF sequence for the number is supposed to sound when dialed. I could always work back from that to get a human-readable phone number if I needed it. Like Jebdm, the only numbers I really know are those that haven't changed in a few decades and my own cell number. But I also prefer face to face conversation over telephone, so I'm only likely to call you if I can't find you. (And then I'm more likely to just text or e-mail....)
  - evgeny0 15y ago
    Are you joking or did you used to be a phreaker? That is hardcore! +1
    - cydonian_monk 15y ago
      No joke, though I'm not an old phone phreak (sorta...). It's just like remembering music - every number sings its own 10 note song. At least it was until my cellphone stopped playing back DTMFs for stored numbers. SIP and quiet dialing have almost killed the music.
- deleted 16y ago
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- deleted 16y ago
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- run4yourlives 16y ago
  Use address then.
  - corin_ 16y ago
    Ironically the opposite for me. I can tell you my father's mobile and home numbers, but not his address (I know the post code but not the flat number...), despite visiting him 2-3 times a month. I can also tell you my grandmother's number, but not her address. Again, I'll visit her maybe twice as often as I'll call her (not that many times in a year, she lives 60 miles ago).
  - danssig 15y ago
    I'm a landmark person. I don't know the address of where I work, I just know what the places I need to turn at look like.
- mattm 15y ago
  I got a new phone number three weeks ago and I still haven't memorized my own phone number.
shazow 16y ago
Perhaps an undervalued skill is determining the amount of accuracy necessary? When asked on the spot like that, you may be better off giving an education guess than shuffling through a giant binder. Sometimes I'll see somebody being asked a question which I know they know the answer to but they'll misinterpret the motivation behind it and the desired answer. This makes me wonder, is it a situational thing or some kind of cultural/language barrier? I also notice that solid hackers get along really well together because they can anticipate how the other person thinks and know what they want to know (or already know/don't care about). Hacker types seem to be much more culture-biased than the average person, so when you introduce somebody from the other end of the spectrum you get a huge rift. I suppose that 10 minutes is enough time to notice if this rift exists.
- StavrosK 16y ago
  I'm totally like that. Many times people will ask me questions (oddly, this only happens in interview-type situations) when I will just entirely space out on the motivation. I just can't understand what they want and the question either seems too vague or too obvious. I don't know if it's me or them, but it happens.
physcab 16y ago
When I was in graduate school taking my qualifying examination, I stood in front of my 5 advisors answering their questions one by one about my dissertation project (pre-defense). The first time I failed. They questioned me for 2 hours on every detail of my project and grew impatient every time I gave them a hand-wavy answer. The second time I passed. The questioning lasted 15 minutes. I had spent the previous 3 months since the first failure reading every single book on my domain atleast twice. I was also angered (as were they) the first time when they asked simple questions and the answer just didn't bubble to the top of my memory. I think the second time around, they were almost freaked out by my eagerness.
acconrad 16y ago
How do you prepare for this? How do you practice answering these questions? I feel like I can never know enough about the business. So I would ask, for any of you who have pitched to investors / YC, how do you go about preparing and practicing?
- rwar 16y ago
  (full disclosure: haven't pitched to investors/YC) Just talking about your product with colleagues, mentors, friends, etc. can help you get prepared. Most likely they will ask you questions and it can be like a mock "interview".
- OmarIsmail 16y ago
  That's the whole point it's not about "preparing and practicing" for the pitch/investors. You'll never "know enough". Instead if you're passionate about the domain and somewhat intelligent then you should know everything the investors know and a hell of a lot more. The investors should have a fraction of the knowledge and experience that you have and thus should be practically incapable of asking you a question you don't know the answer to. If you can't answer the question then you're either not particularly passionate, or you're not very smart - either way you're not worth investing in.
  - acconrad 16y ago
    I don't know if that's true. Some ideas anyone can have a cursory knowledge of your domain, and can identify corner cases you may not have considered. That's mostly the stuff I'm concerned about. I'm curious what kind of corner cases people can ask questions about.
    - trafficlight 16y ago
      Then you tell them you don't know and you walk them through an educated guess. They just want to know that you understand your supposed area of expertise.
- coffeemug 16y ago
revorad 16y ago
I find this statement at odds with this one: The very best startup ideas, the ones that are the biggest successes, tend to be the ideas that you don't know are even going to work.
- cbo 16y ago
  Knowing a domain and being able to predict success in it are two very different things. EDIT: A better example. Before Ford released the F-150, it seemed to be a solution in search of a problem. It was somewhere between the F-100 and F-250 and none of the pre-market reviewers really seemed to like it. Ford released it anyway. The F-150 went on to become the most popular variant of the best selling truck series for 34 years.
  - revorad 16y ago
    That's an interesting example, but it's not from a startup. Ignoring that, it could still hardly be considered an idea Ford wouldn't know if it would work at all, because they already had success with similar ideas.
    - biot 16y ago
      It's not from a startup but there's an interesting parallel. It's as if Ford had a $10/month plan and a $25/month plan. They didn't see a need for a $15/month plan but they created one anyways and it took off. The thinking behind its success is likely similar: the highest tier of service often acts as a decoy for the one you really want them to pick... the second highest plan. It gives customers a reason to reject the "luxury" option and settle instead for the middle of the pack option which is only slightly more expensive than the cheap option, allowing them to feel like they made the sensible choice.
      - revorad 16y ago
        And how do you relate this back to the biggest startup successes like google or facebook?
danssig 15y ago
Like most one liners, that's not very fair. I don't even know my own phone number. Why would I? I consider it bad interface that I have to ever even hear this kind of technical detail at all. I know my number and every other number by the name of the person or place I want to call. Likewise, are you sure the people are looking in their document because they don't know? Maybe they answered this question at some previous time in a really concise and elegant way and want to reuse it? Maybe they have a page in their that visually illustrates the answer?

by ccc3 16y ago

corin_ 16y ago

I love the comparison, but I would imagine that due to mobile phones and contact lists, it's quite possible to be in love without knowing any phone numbers. Personally I know the numbers of the (at a guess) 20 people I call most often, but I always assumed that, in 2011, I'm the exception not the rule. Not particularly relevant, his point stands either way, just interested to know if other people on HN still find themselves memorising phone numbers.

Jebdm 16y ago
The only numbers I know are the ones that haven't changed since before I was a teenager (basically just my parents' numbers and 911), my own Google Voice number, and Bing 411. That's partially because I can always look up numbers in my contacts, on Facebook, or online, and partially because I make phone calls less than once a week.
- pavel_lishin 16y ago
  I don't bother remembering a phone number, unless calling that number will result in the person on the other end bailing me out of jail. So far, 100% success rate.
  - lanstein 16y ago
    wrt being bailed out of jail?
- sankyo 16y ago
  in 2011 we do not know phone numbers anymore, but those braincells now store passwords.
cydonian_monk 16y ago
I don't directly remember any new numbers, but I know how the DTMF sequence for the number is supposed to sound when dialed. I could always work back from that to get a human-readable phone number if I needed it. Like Jebdm, the only numbers I really know are those that haven't changed in a few decades and my own cell number. But I also prefer face to face conversation over telephone, so I'm only likely to call you if I can't find you. (And then I'm more likely to just text or e-mail....)
- evgeny0 15y ago
  Are you joking or did you used to be a phreaker? That is hardcore! +1
  - cydonian_monk 15y ago
    No joke, though I'm not an old phone phreak (sorta...). It's just like remembering music - every number sings its own 10 note song. At least it was until my cellphone stopped playing back DTMFs for stored numbers. SIP and quiet dialing have almost killed the music.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
run4yourlives 16y ago
Use address then.
- corin_ 16y ago
  Ironically the opposite for me. I can tell you my father's mobile and home numbers, but not his address (I know the post code but not the flat number...), despite visiting him 2-3 times a month. I can also tell you my grandmother's number, but not her address. Again, I'll visit her maybe twice as often as I'll call her (not that many times in a year, she lives 60 miles ago).
- danssig 15y ago
  I'm a landmark person. I don't know the address of where I work, I just know what the places I need to turn at look like.
mattm 15y ago
I got a new phone number three weeks ago and I still haven't memorized my own phone number.

shazow 16y ago

Perhaps an undervalued skill is determining the amount of accuracy necessary? When asked on the spot like that, you may be better off giving an education guess than shuffling through a giant binder. Sometimes I'll see somebody being asked a question which I know they know the answer to but they'll misinterpret the motivation behind it and the desired answer. This makes me wonder, is it a situational thing or some kind of cultural/language barrier? I also notice that solid hackers get along really well together because they can anticipate how the other person thinks and know what they want to know (or already know/don't care about). Hacker types seem to be much more culture-biased than the average person, so when you introduce somebody from the other end of the spectrum you get a huge rift. I suppose that 10 minutes is enough time to notice if this rift exists.

StavrosK 16y ago
I'm totally like that. Many times people will ask me questions (oddly, this only happens in interview-type situations) when I will just entirely space out on the motivation. I just can't understand what they want and the question either seems too vague or too obvious. I don't know if it's me or them, but it happens.

physcab 16y ago

When I was in graduate school taking my qualifying examination, I stood in front of my 5 advisors answering their questions one by one about my dissertation project (pre-defense). The first time I failed. They questioned me for 2 hours on every detail of my project and grew impatient every time I gave them a hand-wavy answer. The second time I passed. The questioning lasted 15 minutes. I had spent the previous 3 months since the first failure reading every single book on my domain atleast twice. I was also angered (as were they) the first time when they asked simple questions and the answer just didn't bubble to the top of my memory. I think the second time around, they were almost freaked out by my eagerness.

acconrad 16y ago

How do you prepare for this? How do you practice answering these questions? I feel like I can never know enough about the business. So I would ask, for any of you who have pitched to investors / YC, how do you go about preparing and practicing?

rwar 16y ago
(full disclosure: haven't pitched to investors/YC) Just talking about your product with colleagues, mentors, friends, etc. can help you get prepared. Most likely they will ask you questions and it can be like a mock "interview".
OmarIsmail 16y ago
That's the whole point it's not about "preparing and practicing" for the pitch/investors. You'll never "know enough". Instead if you're passionate about the domain and somewhat intelligent then you should know everything the investors know and a hell of a lot more. The investors should have a fraction of the knowledge and experience that you have and thus should be practically incapable of asking you a question you don't know the answer to. If you can't answer the question then you're either not particularly passionate, or you're not very smart - either way you're not worth investing in.
- acconrad 16y ago
  I don't know if that's true. Some ideas anyone can have a cursory knowledge of your domain, and can identify corner cases you may not have considered. That's mostly the stuff I'm concerned about. I'm curious what kind of corner cases people can ask questions about.
  - trafficlight 16y ago
    Then you tell them you don't know and you walk them through an educated guess. They just want to know that you understand your supposed area of expertise.
coffeemug 16y ago

revorad 16y ago

I find this statement at odds with this one: The very best startup ideas, the ones that are the biggest successes, tend to be the ideas that you don't know are even going to work.

cbo 16y ago
Knowing a domain and being able to predict success in it are two very different things. EDIT: A better example. Before Ford released the F-150, it seemed to be a solution in search of a problem. It was somewhere between the F-100 and F-250 and none of the pre-market reviewers really seemed to like it. Ford released it anyway. The F-150 went on to become the most popular variant of the best selling truck series for 34 years.
- revorad 16y ago
  That's an interesting example, but it's not from a startup. Ignoring that, it could still hardly be considered an idea Ford wouldn't know if it would work at all, because they already had success with similar ideas.
  - biot 16y ago
    It's not from a startup but there's an interesting parallel. It's as if Ford had a $10/month plan and a $25/month plan. They didn't see a need for a $15/month plan but they created one anyways and it took off. The thinking behind its success is likely similar: the highest tier of service often acts as a decoy for the one you really want them to pick... the second highest plan. It gives customers a reason to reject the "luxury" option and settle instead for the middle of the pack option which is only slightly more expensive than the cheap option, allowing them to feel like they made the sensible choice.
    - revorad 16y ago
      And how do you relate this back to the biggest startup successes like google or facebook?

danssig 15y ago

Like most one liners, that's not very fair. I don't even know my own phone number. Why would I? I consider it bad interface that I have to ever even hear this kind of technical detail at all. I know my number and every other number by the name of the person or place I want to call. Likewise, are you sure the people are looking in their document because they don't know? Maybe they answered this question at some previous time in a really concise and elegant way and want to reuse it? Maybe they have a page in their that visually illustrates the answer?