4 ms·
The Map Is Not the Territory (2015)
- setgree 6y agoTwo great illustrations of this concept from literature come to mind: * Borges's 'On Exactitude in Science' [0] about a map that is as large and as precise as the territory, which renders it useless; * the wonderful Eschaton scene in Infinite Jest [1], with Pemulis screaming: "It’s snowing on the goddamn map, not the territory, you dick! This point gets made enough over time that one suspects it's an enduring trait of our cognition to mistake the two. It certainly comes up when people present and talk about epidemiology models. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Exactitude_in_Science https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Exactitude_in_Science [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJpfK7l404I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJpfK7l404I -- I think this Decembrists music video does Eschaton wonderfully.
- suryabeep 6y agoI saw the title to this post and immediately thought of these two things. I clicked on the comments, and you've already named them. What great writers!
- umvi 6y agoYeah but with the advent of computers you can have a map as large and precise as the territory... just keep zooming in until the scale is 1:1
- setgree 6y agoAnd would this be useful as a map?
- goatlover 6y agoAssuming you have perfect real-time knowledge of the territory to model which the computing hardware can support.
- Thorrez 6y agoI think the best example of the map being the territory is videogames. The map file might literally be the source of truth of what is on the territory.
- ChrisMarshallNY 6y agoOne of my favorite sayings is the old Swiss Army aphorism: "When the map and the terrain disagree; believe the terrain." It features in this screed I wrote: https://medium.com/chrismarshallny/concrete-galoshes-a5798a55af2a https://medium.com/chrismarshallny/concrete-galoshes-a5798a5... (Scroll down to "Story Time." It's in that section.) I also enjoyed learning about Farnam Street. I've bookmarked it.
- Tehchops 6y agoI wonder if it's even useful anymore to consider mental models in the context of financial markets, even if it's just used as a metaphorical warning sign. I read an assertion recently that of all the "markets" in human civilization/culture, the financial one is the only one where we have truly have brought maximum resource and human capital to bear. With that in mind, no one is ever surprised when the next fat tail undoes hundreds of millions in mere moments, even when the capital was managed by ostensibly "smart" individuals. The map is certainly not the territory there, but for the average individual they're going to have a hard time understanding the map, the territory, the map legend, anecdotes about the map etc...
- segfaultbuserr 6y ago> The map is certainly not the territory there, but for the average individual they're going to have a hard time understanding the map, [...], the map legend [...] It's true in many fields of engineering and scientific research, including geography and map-making. Just see how complex Geographic Information Systems [0] (basically computerized maps) have became. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographic_information_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographic_information_system
- SuoDuanDao 6y agoFinancial markets are also unusually tough because it's such a wicked problem. If there weren't so many smart people trying to predict them, they'd be easier to predict.
- BurningFrog 6y agoThe financial markets are aware of the models of them, and use that knowledge to subvert their expectations. The financial markets may be the biggest intelligent entity that ever existed. The only way to second guess them is to figure out a tru theory, and NOT PUBLISH IT. I expect there are many such theories producing a lot of wealth to people who don't talk about it.
- jbay808 6y ago> I read an assertion recently that of all the "markets" in human civilization/culture, the financial one is the only one where we have truly have brought maximum resource and human capital to bear. Are you thinking of this book? If I had to name the single epistemic feat at which modern human civilization is most adequate, the peak of all human power of estimation, I would unhesitatingly reply, “Short-term relative pricing of liquid financial assets, like the price of S&P 500 stocks relative to other S&P 500 stocks over the next three months.” This is something into which human civilization puts an actual effort. https://equilibriabook.com/inadequacy-and-modesty/ https://equilibriabook.com/inadequacy-and-modesty/
- FigmentEngine 6y agoeven better resource, learn wardley mapping https://medium.com/wardleymaps https://medium.com/wardleymaps how to use maps in business
- ska 6y agoWouldn't "using maps in business" be subject to precisely the points of this article? How then is this a "better" resource, rather than a tangentially related one?
- cerberusss 6y agoA.E. van Vogt wrote a fantastic SF novel based on the concept of "the map is not the territory". It's called "The Players of Null-A", if I remember correctly. It became a trilogy. I've re-read it multiple times and in fact, had just started reading it again. Some things did not age well since it was written in 1946, but overall fascinating stuff.
- mroll 6y agoThe first book is actually called “The World of Null-A”. I picked it up at a local used book store last year and enjoyed it. Haven’t read any more of the trilogy yet.
- cerberusss 6y agoAh, thanks for mentioning that. If you get the chance, the other two are pretty great as well. As an aside, one of my favorite authors, Neil Asher, recently blogged about A.E. van Vogt: http://theskinner.blogspot.com/2020/06/destination-universe-e-van-vogt.html http://theskinner.blogspot.com/2020/06/destination-universe-...
- interestica 6y agoEven actuallier, the first book was titled "The World of Ā" but "to reduce printing costs, the 1953 and 1964 Ace Books paperback editions were entitled The World of Null-A, and the symbol Ā was replaced with "null-A" throughout the text." [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_of_Null-A#Publication_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_of_Null-A#Publicatio...
- mroll 6y agoHah! Thanks
- bearer_token 6y agoTwo implications: 1. We have many maps, models, or concepts - different ways of viewing the same situation. How we choose which map is often more important than the overall accuracy of our maps. Changing perspective often beats getting more accurate data. 2. There is no reason to have any emotional or sentimental attachment to one’s knowledge. Think of “your knowledge” the same way you would think of “your map collection”. Edit (or discard) them with extreme prejudice!
- earthboundkid 6y agoWhat’s interesting are cases where the map is the territory. The Facebook map of your friends just is the graph of your Facebook friends. The chain of command for the military just is the chain of command. Etc.
- cheschire 6y agoEhhh, the chain of command in the military is defined by regulations (the map) because you never know exactly who is going to be incapacitated at any given moment. Therefore while today a peer platoon leader might have no authority over me, if our company commander is killed tomorrow and my peer has seniority, he may suddenly have command authority over the company. So while I get your point, I wonder how much people miss the map due to obscure knowledge requirements and think it doesn't exist.
- 082349872349872 6y agoThe map says an O-1 outranks an E-7; the territory says a wise O-1 takes cues from their E-7.
- a1369209993 6y agoOr: MAXIM 2: A sergeant in motion outranks a lieutenant who doesn't know what's going on. MAXIM 3: An ordnance technician at a dead run outranks everybody.
- earthboundkid 6y agoYes, the chain of command is an abstraction. Actual authority is something else.
- ssivark 6y agoTrivially so, but are they even interesting? Such well-specific label territories are often artificial. Your Facebook social graph is a poor proxy for your actual IRL social network (or whose opinions you interact with the most, etc) Big bureaucratic organizations (or other less responsive intelligences) often try to force the territory to conform to the map, for convenience of steering, but it seems like there is a significant map/territory mismatch in the generally interesting/important cases.
- ethn 6y agoThis type of epistemology is that of a naive realist and is much more wrong than the Platonist the author tries to ostensibly criticize. Naive realism is outdated by almost 240 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naïve_realism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naïve_realism
- memexy 6y agoWhat has replaced it?
- goatlover 6y agoIndirect realism or correlationism. The first would mean being aware of mental representations instead of physical objects, and the second is Kantian where the mind structures the noisy flux of sensations according to categories of thought like space and time. The second also means that the way we experience the world depends on the kind of creatures we are, and not the way the world is.
- memexy 6y agoSounds like Plato's cave.
- MperorM 6y agoWhy would that be incompatible with the map and territory model? > The second also means that the way we experience the world depends on the kind of creatures we are, and not the way the world is. Would it be fair to say we all look at both the map and territory wearing different sunglasses? That seems to capture both sentiments, I feel there's something I'm not getting here.
- ethn 6y agoThe map is actually about necessarily true properties that the territory is built on. That in any experience the features of the map exists in the territory. The author argues instead not to be confused with the map because of potential deviation from the reality of the territory. But the map is about the categorical truths of reality which the territory is conforming to. It’s what guarantees mathematics’ “unreasonable effectiveness”. Mathematical or scientific maps are discussing necessary properties of all human experience—-a type of knowledge called the a priori synthetic.