9 ms·

Unarmed police in other countries seem to handle those situations just fine.

iso947 6y ago
Americans are far more heavily armed, and there’s a belief that the only defence against a gun is someone with a bigger gun.
- gridlockd 6y ago
  I can tell you what isn't a defense against a gun: A baton, a taser, teargas, or any of the other toys that ordinary police get to use in the UK.
  - throwaway93132 6y ago
    And yet, only 2 UK police officers were killed in the last year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_police_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_police_officer...
    - gridlockd 6y ago
      Yes, because guns in the UK are rare and police officers aren't going to engage someone with a gun when they're armed with just toys.
      - ric2b 6y ago
        So we agree that the UK system works much better. Both less police and less civilians killed.
        gridlockd 6y ago
        No, we don't. For comparison, in Germany, a slightly larger country, where officers are armed, less than one officer per year died in the past decade: https://www.dw.com/en/two-german-police-officers-killed-by-fleeing-murder-suspect-in-brandenburg/a-37749390 https://www.dw.com/en/two-german-police-officers-killed-by-f... If officers don't engage because they are insufficiently equipped, you effectively have less policing. Less policing causes more violence and more deaths. "Stop and frisk" works: https://www.npr.org/2012/05/15/152764402/stop-and-frisk-works-but-its-problematic?t=1591702388939 https://www.npr.org/2012/05/15/152764402/stop-and-frisk-work... Knife crime in the UK keeps going up... https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42749089 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42749089 ...as a result of literally defunding the police: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/02/criminals-going-unpunished-because-of-cuts-says-police-chief https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/02/criminals-go...
        throwaway93132 6y ago
        https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/United-Kingdom/United-States/Crime/Violent-crime https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/United-Kin... Why pick out a random statistic like knife crime? It sucks, but matters much less than the following statistics: US has 4 times more intentional homicide rate vs. UK. US has 18 times more murder rate vs. UK. I think the evidence is quite clear that the UK with police that are less heavily armed have better crime statistics, fewer police deaths, AND fewer civilian deaths caused by police.
gridlockd 6y ago
I disagree. Almost every country on the planet arms its police force and all of those countries are rather low in crime, at least compared to the US. When there's a situation that requires guns, they stay put until the police with the guns arrives. Or they become a hero and get stabbed in the process: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/22/police-british-university-students-and-french-pupils-among-those-hurt https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/22/police-briti... https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-49273979 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-49273979 https://news.sky.com/story/police-officer-critical-after-being-stabbed-with-machete-11779802 https://news.sky.com/story/police-officer-critical-after-bei... https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/man-charged-stabbing-police-officer-a4423816.html https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/man-charged-stabbing-p...

Americans are far more heavily armed, and there’s a belief that the only defence against a gun is someone with a bigger gun.

gridlockd 6y ago
I can tell you what isn't a defense against a gun: A baton, a taser, teargas, or any of the other toys that ordinary police get to use in the UK.
- throwaway93132 6y ago
  And yet, only 2 UK police officers were killed in the last year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_police_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_police_officer...
  - gridlockd 6y ago
    Yes, because guns in the UK are rare and police officers aren't going to engage someone with a gun when they're armed with just toys.
    - ric2b 6y ago
      So we agree that the UK system works much better. Both less police and less civilians killed.
      - gridlockd 6y ago
        No, we don't. For comparison, in Germany, a slightly larger country, where officers are armed, less than one officer per year died in the past decade: https://www.dw.com/en/two-german-police-officers-killed-by-fleeing-murder-suspect-in-brandenburg/a-37749390 https://www.dw.com/en/two-german-police-officers-killed-by-f... If officers don't engage because they are insufficiently equipped, you effectively have less policing. Less policing causes more violence and more deaths. "Stop and frisk" works: https://www.npr.org/2012/05/15/152764402/stop-and-frisk-works-but-its-problematic?t=1591702388939 https://www.npr.org/2012/05/15/152764402/stop-and-frisk-work... Knife crime in the UK keeps going up... https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42749089 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42749089 ...as a result of literally defunding the police: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/02/criminals-going-unpunished-because-of-cuts-says-police-chief https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/02/criminals-go...
        throwaway93132 6y ago
        https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/United-Kingdom/United-States/Crime/Violent-crime https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/United-Kin... Why pick out a random statistic like knife crime? It sucks, but matters much less than the following statistics: US has 4 times more intentional homicide rate vs. UK. US has 18 times more murder rate vs. UK. I think the evidence is quite clear that the UK with police that are less heavily armed have better crime statistics, fewer police deaths, AND fewer civilian deaths caused by police.

gridlockd 6y ago

I disagree. Almost every country on the planet arms its police force and all of those countries are rather low in crime, at least compared to the US. When there's a situation that requires guns, they stay put until the police with the guns arrives. Or they become a hero and get stabbed in the process: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/22/police-british-university-students-and-french-pupils-among-those-hurt https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/22/police-briti... https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-49273979 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-49273979 https://news.sky.com/story/police-officer-critical-after-being-stabbed-with-machete-11779802 https://news.sky.com/story/police-officer-critical-after-bei... https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/man-charged-stabbing-police-officer-a4423816.html https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/man-charged-stabbing-p...