6 ms·

So what, we're supposed to wait 100 years for sensible policy? What are you advocating? Why can't we fix things now?

mthoms 6y ago
It seems like the parent commenter is "advocating" that your claim "Obama did basically nothing" is provably false. If you want to argue he didn't do enough, sure go ahead. Saying he did nothing is being intellectually dishonest.
- brenden2 6y ago
  I can't point to a single thing Obama did to fix the broken state of the country and politics. Maybe I'm just dumb, but my only memories of him are some speeches he gave about closing Guantanamo and then not following through.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    He certainly gave it a shot. https://www.npr.org/2017/01/19/510448989/trump-inherits-guantanamos-remaining-detainees https://www.npr.org/2017/01/19/510448989/trump-inherits-guan... > In 2011, Congress began placing restrictions on Guantanamo transfers in its yearly defense authorization bill, effectively stopping the president from transferring the detainees to a U.S. facility.
    - brenden2 6y ago
      And yet the gulag is still there. It's a binary thing: either he closed it or he didn't. Clearly he did not.
      - mthoms 6y ago
        Here's some evidence that refutes your claim that he "did nothing". If you want to judge results in a binary fashion then fine. Luckily, most reasonable people don't think that way. > On January 22, 2009, Obama signed an executive order restricting interrogators to methods listed and authorized by an Army Field Manual, ending the use of "enhanced interrogation techniques." [...] The prisoner population of the detention camp fell from 242 in January 2009 to 91 in January 2016, in part due to the Periodic Review Boards that Obama established in 2011. Many members of Congress strongly opposed plans to transfer Guantanamo detainees to prisons in U.S. states, and the Obama administration was reluctant to send potentially dangerous prisoners to other countries, especially unstable countries such as Yemen. Though Obama continued to advocate for the closure of the detention camp, 41 inmates remained in Guantanamo when Obama left office. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_Barack_Obama#Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_Barack_Obama#Gua... If you want to argue he could have done more, or failed to live up to expectations, you'd have many people agree (probably including myself). Saying he "did nothing" is just willful ignorance of the facts.
        brenden2 6y ago
        I appreciate your passion, but Obama still didn't follow through with his promises, and whatever change he enacted wasn't enough.
        mthoms 6y ago
        And I admire yours. I also agree with you the revised version of the statement above. :) Friendly advice: if you want to engage in meaningful dialogue here avoid making absolutist (and lets' be honest, provably false) statements like "Obama did nothing" since you won't be taken seriously. Have a good day.
        brenden2 6y ago
        I just checked and my actual words were "basically changed nothing", which to me means "made some changes, but they were inadequate".
        mthoms 6y ago
        I disagree. Most people will read that as saying the changes he made were inconsequential (in other words the changes "basically amounted to nothing"). https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/amount+to+nothing https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/amount+to+nothing If you meant inadequate (weren't enough), rather than inconsequential (had little to no effect) you could have said it. Edit: That's not to mention that you twice doubled down on the idea he "did nothing" in other comments.
  - mthoms 6y ago
    If you can't list a single thing that Obama did that was positive, I'm certainly not going to convince you. If you are genuinely interested in the matter though, here's a link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_Barack_Obama#Domestic_affairs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_Barack_Obama#Dom...

It seems like the parent commenter is "advocating" that your claim "Obama did basically nothing" is provably false. If you want to argue he didn't do enough, sure go ahead. Saying he did nothing is being intellectually dishonest.

brenden2 6y ago
I can't point to a single thing Obama did to fix the broken state of the country and politics. Maybe I'm just dumb, but my only memories of him are some speeches he gave about closing Guantanamo and then not following through.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  He certainly gave it a shot. https://www.npr.org/2017/01/19/510448989/trump-inherits-guantanamos-remaining-detainees https://www.npr.org/2017/01/19/510448989/trump-inherits-guan... > In 2011, Congress began placing restrictions on Guantanamo transfers in its yearly defense authorization bill, effectively stopping the president from transferring the detainees to a U.S. facility.
  - brenden2 6y ago
    And yet the gulag is still there. It's a binary thing: either he closed it or he didn't. Clearly he did not.
    - mthoms 6y ago
      Here's some evidence that refutes your claim that he "did nothing". If you want to judge results in a binary fashion then fine. Luckily, most reasonable people don't think that way. > On January 22, 2009, Obama signed an executive order restricting interrogators to methods listed and authorized by an Army Field Manual, ending the use of "enhanced interrogation techniques." [...] The prisoner population of the detention camp fell from 242 in January 2009 to 91 in January 2016, in part due to the Periodic Review Boards that Obama established in 2011. Many members of Congress strongly opposed plans to transfer Guantanamo detainees to prisons in U.S. states, and the Obama administration was reluctant to send potentially dangerous prisoners to other countries, especially unstable countries such as Yemen. Though Obama continued to advocate for the closure of the detention camp, 41 inmates remained in Guantanamo when Obama left office. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_Barack_Obama#Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_Barack_Obama#Gua... If you want to argue he could have done more, or failed to live up to expectations, you'd have many people agree (probably including myself). Saying he "did nothing" is just willful ignorance of the facts.
      - brenden2 6y ago
        I appreciate your passion, but Obama still didn't follow through with his promises, and whatever change he enacted wasn't enough.
        mthoms 6y ago
        And I admire yours. I also agree with you the revised version of the statement above. :) Friendly advice: if you want to engage in meaningful dialogue here avoid making absolutist (and lets' be honest, provably false) statements like "Obama did nothing" since you won't be taken seriously. Have a good day.
        brenden2 6y ago
        I just checked and my actual words were "basically changed nothing", which to me means "made some changes, but they were inadequate".
        mthoms 6y ago
        I disagree. Most people will read that as saying the changes he made were inconsequential (in other words the changes "basically amounted to nothing"). https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/amount+to+nothing https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/amount+to+nothing If you meant inadequate (weren't enough), rather than inconsequential (had little to no effect) you could have said it. Edit: That's not to mention that you twice doubled down on the idea he "did nothing" in other comments.
- mthoms 6y ago
  If you can't list a single thing that Obama did that was positive, I'm certainly not going to convince you. If you are genuinely interested in the matter though, here's a link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_Barack_Obama#Domestic_affairs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_Barack_Obama#Dom...