6 ms·

Some other countries recently took same path, relevant discussion here : 1) Singapore : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22702701 https://news.ycombinator.

Some other countries recently took same path, relevant discussion here : 1) Singapore : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22702701 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22702701 2) India : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23311298 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23311298 3) Germany : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23376682 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23376682 ( no discussion, link to repository ) 4) France : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23321137 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23321137

morsch 6y ago
3) Germany : https://github.com/corona-warn-app https://github.com/corona-warn-app (no discussion to be found at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23376682 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23376682)
- giovannibajo1 6y ago
  Looks nice! Why is "SAP" holding the copyright? In Italy, the government acquired the copyright of the app (it was donated by the company that won the tender to develop it).
  - morsch 6y ago
    SAP and Deutsche Telekom -- two large IT corporations -- are the main developers. I don't know why the government doesn't hold the copyright, maybe it should. They've released it as free software, though (Apache license).
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - hobofan 6y ago
      Copyright (at least the closest German equivalent of it) is non-transferable and automatically belongs to the creator, so it isn't really meaningful anyway. That's what licenses are for.
    - quonn 6y ago
      As far as I know, in Germany copyright cannot be transferred. There is a special and limited exception for direct employees, so the company can hold the copyright, but I doubt that a client (like the government) could hold it.
      - hobofan 6y ago
        IANAL, but AFAIK there is no exception for employees. The employee still holds the copyright, but there is usually a clause in the employment contract that gives the employer "unrestricted usage rights" for any copyrightable product of the employee. Especially software developers should read those parts of their employment contracts carefully, as they may be overly broad and sometimes accompanied by weird clauses regarding their OSS work.
        pkaye 6y ago
        If the employee still owns the copyright, does that mean employees could continue to use that software after they leave the company?
        hobofan 6y ago
        In the granting of usage rights it is usually included that the employer will have exclusive usage rights as well (dependent on wording). I don't know about the exact implications for creating very similar future work (what you would call "infringing copyright") though.
        terramex 6y ago
        I'm not German, but as far as I know they have similar system to the one we have in Poland - you can transfer exclusive financial copyrights to another entity but you cannot transfer personal copyrights (so that you can say that you are the author of particular work even if you cannot license it to 3rd parties). In practice, even though personal copyright is not transferable, many employers require you to sign additional civil contract in which you declare that you will never exercise your personal copyright.
        6y ago
  - monocasa 6y ago
    I thought that you couldn't transfer copyright in Germany, only grant licences with all rights. Like even as a developer, it's just in your employment contract that you grant all rights for work done for the company to the company.
  - BjoernKW 6y ago
    Under German law copyright is non-transferrable. However, the copyright holder can grant another party unlimited usage rights as well as waive the right to be mentioned as the actual copyright holder. Both of these might apply here: SAP's and Deutsche Telekom's employees most likely have waived their right to be mentioned as individual copyright holders (which is a common stipulation in German employment contracts) while SAP and Deutsche Telekom have not, which is why they are mentioned as copyright holders instead of the Federal Republic of Germany.
    - legulere 6y ago
      You shouldn’t really call the German Author’s Rights Copyright, because it works dirfferently
      - raverbashing 6y ago
        I think the term in English is "Moral Rights" (Urheberpersönlichkeitsrecht in German but for some weird reason they're apparently different)
      - BjoernKW 6y ago
        The legal system is different. However, copyright is the closest common law approximation.
maxmouchet 6y ago
For France: https://gitlab.inria.fr/stopcovid19 https://gitlab.inria.fr/stopcovid19
the_mitsuhiko 6y ago
Austria: https://github.com/austrianredcross https://github.com/austrianredcross
bovine3dom 6y ago
The UK has an interesting post-hoc approach where the code is open source but only after release, with the git history squashed. Discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23107553 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23107553
jarekkruk 6y ago
3) Poland's solution was also open sourced very soon https://github.com/ProteGO-Safe https://github.com/ProteGO-Safe . While it could have more privacy protective, as long as it will have an option to turn the contract tracing off I will use it. Unfortunately despite the fact that creators of this app are privacy conscious I only heard about it from negative articles. I checked it myself and they are using centralised tracing system, only because Apple/Google decentrilised one isn't ready and it is a main concern in disparaging articles. I'm not saying that currently Poland isn't going into autocracy, but it isn't a tool in this machine. However with 10k installs in a 40m country it is useless.
fomine3 6y ago
Japan: An open source community built a contact tracing app but the government doesn't adopt the app and building different app. I expect the app won't be open sourced. https://github.com/mamori-i-japan/mamori-i-japan-ios https://github.com/mamori-i-japan/mamori-i-japan-ios
- glandium 6y ago
  It's not entirely clear what's going to happen with the source of that governmental app, but at least, it's mentioned in https://cio.go.jp/sites/default/files/uploads/documents/techteam_20200526_01.pdf https://cio.go.jp/sites/default/files/uploads/documents/tech... (last page)
  - fomine3 6y ago
    Oh, I haven't read the sentence. thanks.
justinclift 6y ago
Wonder if any of the official apps are using reproducible builds, that can be built from their published source?

morsch 6y ago

3) Germany : https://github.com/corona-warn-app https://github.com/corona-warn-app (no discussion to be found at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23376682 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23376682)

giovannibajo1 6y ago
Looks nice! Why is "SAP" holding the copyright? In Italy, the government acquired the copyright of the app (it was donated by the company that won the tender to develop it).
- morsch 6y ago
  SAP and Deutsche Telekom -- two large IT corporations -- are the main developers. I don't know why the government doesn't hold the copyright, maybe it should. They've released it as free software, though (Apache license).
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - hobofan 6y ago
    Copyright (at least the closest German equivalent of it) is non-transferable and automatically belongs to the creator, so it isn't really meaningful anyway. That's what licenses are for.
  - quonn 6y ago
    As far as I know, in Germany copyright cannot be transferred. There is a special and limited exception for direct employees, so the company can hold the copyright, but I doubt that a client (like the government) could hold it.
    - hobofan 6y ago
      IANAL, but AFAIK there is no exception for employees. The employee still holds the copyright, but there is usually a clause in the employment contract that gives the employer "unrestricted usage rights" for any copyrightable product of the employee. Especially software developers should read those parts of their employment contracts carefully, as they may be overly broad and sometimes accompanied by weird clauses regarding their OSS work.
      - pkaye 6y ago
        If the employee still owns the copyright, does that mean employees could continue to use that software after they leave the company?
        hobofan 6y ago
        In the granting of usage rights it is usually included that the employer will have exclusive usage rights as well (dependent on wording). I don't know about the exact implications for creating very similar future work (what you would call "infringing copyright") though.
        terramex 6y ago
        I'm not German, but as far as I know they have similar system to the one we have in Poland - you can transfer exclusive financial copyrights to another entity but you cannot transfer personal copyrights (so that you can say that you are the author of particular work even if you cannot license it to 3rd parties). In practice, even though personal copyright is not transferable, many employers require you to sign additional civil contract in which you declare that you will never exercise your personal copyright.
      - 6y ago
- monocasa 6y ago
  I thought that you couldn't transfer copyright in Germany, only grant licences with all rights. Like even as a developer, it's just in your employment contract that you grant all rights for work done for the company to the company.
- BjoernKW 6y ago
  Under German law copyright is non-transferrable. However, the copyright holder can grant another party unlimited usage rights as well as waive the right to be mentioned as the actual copyright holder. Both of these might apply here: SAP's and Deutsche Telekom's employees most likely have waived their right to be mentioned as individual copyright holders (which is a common stipulation in German employment contracts) while SAP and Deutsche Telekom have not, which is why they are mentioned as copyright holders instead of the Federal Republic of Germany.
  - legulere 6y ago
    You shouldn’t really call the German Author’s Rights Copyright, because it works dirfferently
    - raverbashing 6y ago
      I think the term in English is "Moral Rights" (Urheberpersönlichkeitsrecht in German but for some weird reason they're apparently different)
    - BjoernKW 6y ago
      The legal system is different. However, copyright is the closest common law approximation.

maxmouchet 6y ago

For France: https://gitlab.inria.fr/stopcovid19 https://gitlab.inria.fr/stopcovid19

the_mitsuhiko 6y ago

Austria: https://github.com/austrianredcross https://github.com/austrianredcross

bovine3dom 6y ago

The UK has an interesting post-hoc approach where the code is open source but only after release, with the git history squashed. Discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23107553 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23107553

jarekkruk 6y ago

3) Poland's solution was also open sourced very soon https://github.com/ProteGO-Safe https://github.com/ProteGO-Safe . While it could have more privacy protective, as long as it will have an option to turn the contract tracing off I will use it. Unfortunately despite the fact that creators of this app are privacy conscious I only heard about it from negative articles. I checked it myself and they are using centralised tracing system, only because Apple/Google decentrilised one isn't ready and it is a main concern in disparaging articles. I'm not saying that currently Poland isn't going into autocracy, but it isn't a tool in this machine. However with 10k installs in a 40m country it is useless.

fomine3 6y ago

Japan: An open source community built a contact tracing app but the government doesn't adopt the app and building different app. I expect the app won't be open sourced. https://github.com/mamori-i-japan/mamori-i-japan-ios https://github.com/mamori-i-japan/mamori-i-japan-ios

glandium 6y ago
It's not entirely clear what's going to happen with the source of that governmental app, but at least, it's mentioned in https://cio.go.jp/sites/default/files/uploads/documents/techteam_20200526_01.pdf https://cio.go.jp/sites/default/files/uploads/documents/tech... (last page)
- fomine3 6y ago
  Oh, I haven't read the sentence. thanks.

justinclift 6y ago

Wonder if any of the official apps are using reproducible builds, that can be built from their published source?