5 ms·

> I hope, that both sides, the protesters and police force will find a way, to exit that spiral of violence. The two sides are massively unequal in terms of po

> I hope, that both sides, the protesters and police force will find a way, to exit that spiral of violence. The two sides are massively unequal in terms of power, the onus is on the police to stop the violence.

brobdingnagians 6y ago
The onus is on both. One may be able to do it better, and more conveniently, but everyone's responsible for doing their bit in ceasing and stopping violence.
- viraptor 6y ago
  You understand why the protests started though, right? It's not like the protesters can say "ok, if we stop protesting now, will you please consider following the law?" How to you expect protesters to deescalate this with absolutely nothing changing and high level LE people still not accepting any blame and pushing for military help?
  - chr1 6y ago
    First of all they should say that they are not related to any of the looters, that anyone even throwing trash on the streets is against protesters. Use every opportunity to show how peaceful the protesters are. Not gather at nights as at nights there is a higher chance for confusing situation to arise that give opening to police to apply force. Instead of negative chants like fuck the police use positive chants like join us, or police is ours. Police knows how to deal with force, the goal of the protest should be to not give it any opportunity to apply the force, so that even the people who are against protesters can't find a way to justify police actions. It may be too late for applying this tactic now, but if it was applied earlier it would make the protest much more successful. At least that's what happened in Armenia few years ago, when after many years of unsuccessful violent protests, non-violent protest brought a real change.
  - oh_sigh 6y ago
    You understand why US cops are so heavy handed though, right? It may be because they have to deal with a population with 3 guns per capita, where the amount of police killed per year on duty(even disregarding accidents) is more akin to a third world country than anything going on in the EU. > and high level LE people still not accepting any blame I don't know how you get that from OP saying that both sides need to de-escalate.
    - leetcrew 6y ago
      > It may be because they have to deal with a population with 3 guns per capita where did you find this figure? this is off by more than a factor of two from any source I can find.
      - oh_sigh 6y ago
        Sorry, I took the total gun count(~400M) and didn't state that I did some math based on how many adults there are in the US since children and the extremely elderly tend to own far fewer guns than run of the mill adults. The result is still more or less the same if there is 1.1 guns per capita.
        leetcrew 6y ago
        that's not unreasonable. I saw your post a few minutes after another that claimed there were a billion guns in the US, so I was starting to wonder if this was a common misconception. I personally don't feel that pervasive civilian gun ownership is incompatible with proportionate policing, but that's certainly a debate that reasonable people can have.
        mc32 6y ago
        per capita in run of the mill statistics is just a raw division of things over population (people or other organism in question). per capita income isn't dividing total income over "employed earners" for example.
    - viraptor 6y ago
      I meant that LE is largely not accepting any blame right now. That's a signal for protest not to deescalate. But since you mention that, cops do not have to be heavy handed. Training around handling mental health helps. Training around de-escalation helps. Not being a murdering racist helps. Body cameras work. If the guns were the main reason, we'd see similar reactions every time a group of open-carry white protesters show up on the streets. They're not treated the same way though.
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    Took me a minute to realize you meant Law Enforcement and not Lawful Evil here. I guess in this case it's the same.
- rumanator 6y ago
  Please explain what the police is doing to curtail police violence.
- NoSorryCannot 6y ago
  This is mitigating garbage trying to avoid blame, and more both-sides junk that will excuse anything so long as quiet (not "peace", that would be something else) is restored. This is an unusual protest of the usual systemic violence and prejudice of police and government. There are people to blame and it is not everyone's responsibility to make it easy and comfortable for the channel surfers at home.
loco5niner 6y ago
> The two sides are massively unequal in terms of power This is certainly not true except on an individual scale. > the onus is on the police to stop the violence. The onus is on every individual. On each side.

brobdingnagians 6y ago

The onus is on both. One may be able to do it better, and more conveniently, but everyone's responsible for doing their bit in ceasing and stopping violence.

viraptor 6y ago
You understand why the protests started though, right? It's not like the protesters can say "ok, if we stop protesting now, will you please consider following the law?" How to you expect protesters to deescalate this with absolutely nothing changing and high level LE people still not accepting any blame and pushing for military help?
- chr1 6y ago
  First of all they should say that they are not related to any of the looters, that anyone even throwing trash on the streets is against protesters. Use every opportunity to show how peaceful the protesters are. Not gather at nights as at nights there is a higher chance for confusing situation to arise that give opening to police to apply force. Instead of negative chants like fuck the police use positive chants like join us, or police is ours. Police knows how to deal with force, the goal of the protest should be to not give it any opportunity to apply the force, so that even the people who are against protesters can't find a way to justify police actions. It may be too late for applying this tactic now, but if it was applied earlier it would make the protest much more successful. At least that's what happened in Armenia few years ago, when after many years of unsuccessful violent protests, non-violent protest brought a real change.
- oh_sigh 6y ago
  You understand why US cops are so heavy handed though, right? It may be because they have to deal with a population with 3 guns per capita, where the amount of police killed per year on duty(even disregarding accidents) is more akin to a third world country than anything going on in the EU. > and high level LE people still not accepting any blame I don't know how you get that from OP saying that both sides need to de-escalate.
  - leetcrew 6y ago
    > It may be because they have to deal with a population with 3 guns per capita where did you find this figure? this is off by more than a factor of two from any source I can find.
    - oh_sigh 6y ago
      Sorry, I took the total gun count(~400M) and didn't state that I did some math based on how many adults there are in the US since children and the extremely elderly tend to own far fewer guns than run of the mill adults. The result is still more or less the same if there is 1.1 guns per capita.
      - leetcrew 6y ago
        that's not unreasonable. I saw your post a few minutes after another that claimed there were a billion guns in the US, so I was starting to wonder if this was a common misconception. I personally don't feel that pervasive civilian gun ownership is incompatible with proportionate policing, but that's certainly a debate that reasonable people can have.
      - mc32 6y ago
        per capita in run of the mill statistics is just a raw division of things over population (people or other organism in question). per capita income isn't dividing total income over "employed earners" for example.
  - viraptor 6y ago
    I meant that LE is largely not accepting any blame right now. That's a signal for protest not to deescalate. But since you mention that, cops do not have to be heavy handed. Training around handling mental health helps. Training around de-escalation helps. Not being a murdering racist helps. Body cameras work. If the guns were the main reason, we'd see similar reactions every time a group of open-carry white protesters show up on the streets. They're not treated the same way though.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  Took me a minute to realize you meant Law Enforcement and not Lawful Evil here. I guess in this case it's the same.
rumanator 6y ago
Please explain what the police is doing to curtail police violence.
NoSorryCannot 6y ago
This is mitigating garbage trying to avoid blame, and more both-sides junk that will excuse anything so long as quiet (not "peace", that would be something else) is restored. This is an unusual protest of the usual systemic violence and prejudice of police and government. There are people to blame and it is not everyone's responsibility to make it easy and comfortable for the channel surfers at home.

loco5niner 6y ago

> The two sides are massively unequal in terms of power This is certainly not true except on an individual scale. > the onus is on the police to stop the violence. The onus is on every individual. On each side.