5 ms·

I agree, and I'd go a step further and say that if you destroy evidence of someone burning my city down or looting, you're an accomplice to that crime.

blotter_paper 6y ago
What if you stop an EMT from checking the pulse of somebody who your co-worker has been choking to death for minutes? Does that make you an accomplice, too? If your city charged these cops justly then nobody would be burning it down; cure your disease and the symptoms will go away.
- augustt 6y ago
  Yup, I'd love if we were able to be a unified front and collectively say the mayhem will not stop until all four involved are charged. And if they're not convicted... 1992 will look like a joke.
  - jsaxton86 6y ago
    This whole situation sucks because most people are rightly outraged about police violence, but their anger is totally misdirected. These businesses had nothing to do with the death of George Floyd. I live in Portland, Oregon now. Without going into too many details, we have an expensive pension program. Many feel that the pension program is too generous, and there has been a lot of thought put into how we can fully fund both pensions and everything else. Last year there was a bill in the Oregon Senate (SB1049) that proposed some modest changes to how pensions work. It passed with bipartisan support, and the public unions went nuts. They said they'd never support a candidate who voted for SB1049. Last month we had our primaries. The most important primary was the Democratic primary for the Oregon Secretary of State. If the governor were to step down for any reason (to take a cabinet position in the Biden administration, for example), the SOS becomes governor. Someone who opposed SB1049 joined the race at the last minute, got over half a million dollars of union money, outspent her candidate, and won the election. This is just one of many examples. Even though the unions are only spending a couple of million dollars per year in Oregon, they're really smart about it, and as such, they get what they want. In the Secretary of State race they hit a home run. For half a million dollars, they pushed their preferred candidate through and sent a message that if you oppose them in any way, it will be a career limiting move. The reason I mentioned that is because I think it is a good contrast to what we're seeing today. With smart leadership, we would have a better chance of solving this problem. But people are enraged and not thinking clearly. And there's no reason to believe that these riots are going to be more successful than the Baltimore riots, the Ferguson riots, the Oakland riots, or even the Rodney King riots.
  - giardini 6y ago
    aaugustt says>"And if they're not convicted... 1992 will look like a joke." So what if a jury finds them innocent, which is highly likely? What do you mean "1992 will look like a joke"?
    - tal8d 6y ago
      A billion dollars of property damage and the targeted destruction of businesses operated by Korean immigrants, but multiplied by a factor that will ensure laughter at the memory of those killed in the '92 race riots? I don't know how you could more charitably interpret the "wish".
      - giardini 6y ago
        tal8d said 3 hours ago>'A billion dollars of property damage and the targeted destruction of businesses operated by Korean immigrants, but multiplied by a factor that will ensure laughter at the memory of those killed in the '92 race riots? I don't know how you could more charitably interpret the "wish".'< I believe you're having problems thinking clearly. Here, in a public forum, you threaten "A billion dollars of property damage and the targeted destruction of businesses operated by Korean immigrants..." which is little more than a megalomanic wish. Shouldn't you be taking some medication or, at the least, seeing a psychologist instead of wasting our time here?
        tal8d 6y ago
        lol, either your reading comprehension is poor or your understanding of the '92 riots is... or both, I guess. That was a response to your question about what one could mean when saying "1992 will look like a joke", and I answered that question exactly. Do you not understand how usernames work?
        CathedralBorrow 6y ago
        > Shouldn't you be taking some medication or, at the least, seeing a psychologist instead of wasting our time here? Isn't this way below the HN discourse bar?
    - 6y ago
  - drewmol 6y ago
    But once you all agree on your demands, methods and victims it's no longer mayhem, just organized terrorism. If they don't get convicted, will you be terrorizing only the jury, or do you plan on victimizing other innocent people too? I sure hope you don't, but if you do get your wish please remember to have everyone print and sign their names on the petition/ransom note/demand letter. When choosing targets for arson just be aware it will take longer to comply if you burn down the courthouse(s).
  - asdfgtrewq 6y ago
    Did you read the autopsy report? Criminal died of over dose of drugs in his system and condition of his heart. His heart condition reflects his lifestyle. Lack of oxygen was not at all the cause of death. How is officer responsible for his death?
- drewmol 6y ago
  >Does that make you an accomplice, too? Yes, deliberately preventing anyone from providing care or defense for a person who's being murdered makes you an accomplice to the murder. >If your city charged these cops justly then nobody would be burning it down Doubtful. Here's a video of East 4th street in downtown Cleveland being destroyed by pillagers last night: https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/video-vandals-destroy-clevelands-iconic-east-4th-street https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-met... There's over a thousand service industry workers who've already been out of work for months due to the pandemic that the businesses on this street support. Many of them have struggled to get enough financing to even reopen, some have had to permanently close. Many (possibly most) of these businesses are destroyed and can not afford to rebuild. Who should the city of Cleveland have charged justly to prevent this? How many more innocent and unrelated people's livelihoods need to be burned down and how many more times (this has happened before, more than once)? There seem to be a lot of accomplices in the video.
  - blotter_paper 6y ago
    >Yes, deliberately preventing anyone from providing care or defense for a person who's being murdered makes you an accomplice to the murder. Are we in agreement that this was documented as happening, and the other cops present were accomplices in the murder of George Floyd? If so, why do you think they aren't being charged? >Who should the city of Cleveland have charged justly to prevent this? I assumed GP meant Minneapolis, which I feel is reasonable given the context. But okay, random US city accepted. Let's see if your city has a history of letting cops get away with killing innocent black people... oh yeah, one of your cops killed a 12 year old kid who was playing airsoft in the park and was subsequently hired by another police department in the same state without facing any charges.[0] So maybe charging Tim Loehmann would have helped make your city less sensitive to this pattern being repeated elsewhere in the country. I don't think violence against businesses is helpful, but I do think violence against the government is helpful; it seemed to get a cop charged. They need to stop this pattern of violence ASAP, and they need to face time for crimes committed. [0]: http://archive.is/jDQv3 http://archive.is/jDQv3
    - 6y ago
DenisM 6y ago
I believe you were looking for this term: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/accessory_after_the_fact https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/accessory_after_the_fact
- jsaxton86 6y ago
  Thanks, I think that's a better term.

blotter_paper 6y ago

What if you stop an EMT from checking the pulse of somebody who your co-worker has been choking to death for minutes? Does that make you an accomplice, too? If your city charged these cops justly then nobody would be burning it down; cure your disease and the symptoms will go away.

augustt 6y ago
Yup, I'd love if we were able to be a unified front and collectively say the mayhem will not stop until all four involved are charged. And if they're not convicted... 1992 will look like a joke.
- jsaxton86 6y ago
  This whole situation sucks because most people are rightly outraged about police violence, but their anger is totally misdirected. These businesses had nothing to do with the death of George Floyd. I live in Portland, Oregon now. Without going into too many details, we have an expensive pension program. Many feel that the pension program is too generous, and there has been a lot of thought put into how we can fully fund both pensions and everything else. Last year there was a bill in the Oregon Senate (SB1049) that proposed some modest changes to how pensions work. It passed with bipartisan support, and the public unions went nuts. They said they'd never support a candidate who voted for SB1049. Last month we had our primaries. The most important primary was the Democratic primary for the Oregon Secretary of State. If the governor were to step down for any reason (to take a cabinet position in the Biden administration, for example), the SOS becomes governor. Someone who opposed SB1049 joined the race at the last minute, got over half a million dollars of union money, outspent her candidate, and won the election. This is just one of many examples. Even though the unions are only spending a couple of million dollars per year in Oregon, they're really smart about it, and as such, they get what they want. In the Secretary of State race they hit a home run. For half a million dollars, they pushed their preferred candidate through and sent a message that if you oppose them in any way, it will be a career limiting move. The reason I mentioned that is because I think it is a good contrast to what we're seeing today. With smart leadership, we would have a better chance of solving this problem. But people are enraged and not thinking clearly. And there's no reason to believe that these riots are going to be more successful than the Baltimore riots, the Ferguson riots, the Oakland riots, or even the Rodney King riots.
- giardini 6y ago
  aaugustt says>"And if they're not convicted... 1992 will look like a joke." So what if a jury finds them innocent, which is highly likely? What do you mean "1992 will look like a joke"?
  - tal8d 6y ago
    A billion dollars of property damage and the targeted destruction of businesses operated by Korean immigrants, but multiplied by a factor that will ensure laughter at the memory of those killed in the '92 race riots? I don't know how you could more charitably interpret the "wish".
    - giardini 6y ago
      tal8d said 3 hours ago>'A billion dollars of property damage and the targeted destruction of businesses operated by Korean immigrants, but multiplied by a factor that will ensure laughter at the memory of those killed in the '92 race riots? I don't know how you could more charitably interpret the "wish".'< I believe you're having problems thinking clearly. Here, in a public forum, you threaten "A billion dollars of property damage and the targeted destruction of businesses operated by Korean immigrants..." which is little more than a megalomanic wish. Shouldn't you be taking some medication or, at the least, seeing a psychologist instead of wasting our time here?
      - tal8d 6y ago
        lol, either your reading comprehension is poor or your understanding of the '92 riots is... or both, I guess. That was a response to your question about what one could mean when saying "1992 will look like a joke", and I answered that question exactly. Do you not understand how usernames work?
      - CathedralBorrow 6y ago
        > Shouldn't you be taking some medication or, at the least, seeing a psychologist instead of wasting our time here? Isn't this way below the HN discourse bar?
  - 6y ago
- drewmol 6y ago
  But once you all agree on your demands, methods and victims it's no longer mayhem, just organized terrorism. If they don't get convicted, will you be terrorizing only the jury, or do you plan on victimizing other innocent people too? I sure hope you don't, but if you do get your wish please remember to have everyone print and sign their names on the petition/ransom note/demand letter. When choosing targets for arson just be aware it will take longer to comply if you burn down the courthouse(s).
- asdfgtrewq 6y ago
  Did you read the autopsy report? Criminal died of over dose of drugs in his system and condition of his heart. His heart condition reflects his lifestyle. Lack of oxygen was not at all the cause of death. How is officer responsible for his death?
drewmol 6y ago
>Does that make you an accomplice, too? Yes, deliberately preventing anyone from providing care or defense for a person who's being murdered makes you an accomplice to the murder. >If your city charged these cops justly then nobody would be burning it down Doubtful. Here's a video of East 4th street in downtown Cleveland being destroyed by pillagers last night: https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/video-vandals-destroy-clevelands-iconic-east-4th-street https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-met... There's over a thousand service industry workers who've already been out of work for months due to the pandemic that the businesses on this street support. Many of them have struggled to get enough financing to even reopen, some have had to permanently close. Many (possibly most) of these businesses are destroyed and can not afford to rebuild. Who should the city of Cleveland have charged justly to prevent this? How many more innocent and unrelated people's livelihoods need to be burned down and how many more times (this has happened before, more than once)? There seem to be a lot of accomplices in the video.
- blotter_paper 6y ago
  >Yes, deliberately preventing anyone from providing care or defense for a person who's being murdered makes you an accomplice to the murder. Are we in agreement that this was documented as happening, and the other cops present were accomplices in the murder of George Floyd? If so, why do you think they aren't being charged? >Who should the city of Cleveland have charged justly to prevent this? I assumed GP meant Minneapolis, which I feel is reasonable given the context. But okay, random US city accepted. Let's see if your city has a history of letting cops get away with killing innocent black people... oh yeah, one of your cops killed a 12 year old kid who was playing airsoft in the park and was subsequently hired by another police department in the same state without facing any charges.[0] So maybe charging Tim Loehmann would have helped make your city less sensitive to this pattern being repeated elsewhere in the country. I don't think violence against businesses is helpful, but I do think violence against the government is helpful; it seemed to get a cop charged. They need to stop this pattern of violence ASAP, and they need to face time for crimes committed. [0]: http://archive.is/jDQv3 http://archive.is/jDQv3
  - 6y ago

DenisM 6y ago

I believe you were looking for this term: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/accessory_after_the_fact https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/accessory_after_the_fact

jsaxton86 6y ago
Thanks, I think that's a better term.