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Did you seek out carnivore/animal-centric nutrition in response to gut issues, mental health or something else? I keep stumbling upon anecdotes of significantl

Did you seek out carnivore/animal-centric nutrition in response to gut issues, mental health or something else? I keep stumbling upon anecdotes of significantly improved states of mind since going keto/carnivore. Have you found any discussions putting forward a proposed mechanism behind these reportings?

jesperado 6y ago
Not OP but I'm consuming a mostly carnivore diet, I struggled with gout for years and since I went keto and then pretty much carnivore I haven't had a flare up. I eat meat, fish, eggs, cheese and cauliflower (my stool seem fine with or without fiber but a little bit makes me feel more "flushed out", lol). The biggest culprit for gout is definitely carbs (sugar) and dehydration in my opinion and the carnivore diet and/or keto pretty much takes care of that, it eliminates the carbs and meat in my experience makes you drink a lot of water. It is also a lot easier to maintain your weight (also very important in the gout equation) on carnivore, I find it really hard to over eat, you hit satiety fast and I find that there is a lot less noise in the hunger signals. My stomach now days only makes itself reminded when I truly need energy, no "fake" cravings. My mental state also seem clearer, I find fat to be a smoother source of energy then carbs. Fat is a slow stable burn while carbs is a violent explosive burn, which is cool every now and then but you pay a price for it.
- UncleOxidant 6y ago
  > The biggest culprit for gout is definitely carbs (sugar) Citation? Because isn't gout generally thought by the medical establishment to be caused by high-protein, low vegetable diets that raise uric acid?
  - srle 6y ago
    Yes. The carnivore diet stuff is just straight up garbage fad dieting except it sounds cool or whatever so it appeals to insecure dudes. No real substance to it, and everyone I’ve ever seen promote just spits out the same bullshit claims as every other fad diet testimonial (“no more brain fog”) Unless you’ve been instructed to by an actual doctor, switching to a meme internet diet promoted by morons like Jordan Peterson is probably not a great idea.
    - penguinlover05 6y ago
      I wonder if the people who had those "no more brain fog" had an underlying condition in the first place, like vitamin/mineral deficiency, anemia, etc. These problems are rarely checked in the first place.
    - dilap 6y ago
      > Prospective data suggest that consumption of sugar sweetened soft drinks and fructose is strongly associated with an increased risk of gout in men. Furthermore, fructose rich fruits and fruit juices may also increase the risk https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18244959/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18244959/
    - eebynight 6y ago
      I never understood why people get so worked up about what others eat. Like how does this affect you in any way? If it works for people so what? Personally, I would never go that far but it seems like most people aren't getting enough protein and could use a bump.
      - eeZah7Ux 6y ago
        > Like how does this affect you in any way? You can see people you care about getting sick by buying into that absurd diet. Or you care about society in general, as you are part of it. It's also possible to care about strangers in general - it's empathy.
    - jesperado 6y ago
      Most stories I hear about people that try carnivore doesn't do it to get on the next hip thing, these are people that suffered from something for years and out of sheer desperation tried something "wild" and it worked FOR THEM. I don't understand how it is a garbage diet either? You get all the nutrients you need while eliminating pretty much everything else. That to me sounds like an excellent starting ground to then build upon and figure out what YOUR gut is cool with.
  - lxdesk 6y ago
    I've come to believe that the confounding factors in whether dietary ideas "work" are micronutrients and the gut biome, and these are still really unexplored areas of medicine. If you have a deficiency of, say, magnesium - that won't be fixed by eating more meat or less sugar, but it might give you strange cravings or bad moods. And if you have a gut that is working inefficiently, it might not adapt well to a high fat diet. And this translates into "bad and good diets", because eating differently reduces the symptoms. But if your body is generally taking in things efficiently, its macronutrient requirements are going to be mostly proportional to your energy use, and then you can have relatively more protein or relatively more carbs without many ill effects. So IMHO a decent starting place for dietary change is not really diet itself, but to take a multivitamin, start intermittent fasting, and to get some daily light, full-body exercise. These things start up the flywheel of reducing ongoing deficiencies and increasing selective pressure on the gut.
  - jesperado 6y ago
    No I have no citation for this, you are right, generally that is what you read, and I went down that route as well for several years but the gout just go worse and worse. Switching to high fat, high protein but pretty much zero carbs seems to be the best for me. I believe, again my own conclusion, that it is a insulin issue, I nuked my insulin system for years with carbs (sugar). I'm not a medical person, I got my first gout attack around 24 (33 now) and since then I had at least one major flare up (lasting weeks) every year + a few minor once per year. 2018 I had the mother of all flare ups in my knee, I thought I had experience pain but oh my lord that was pain on a whole nother level. That made me take extreme measures dietary wise and I've been gout free since (knock on wood).
  - dawidw 6y ago
    >> The biggest culprit for gout is definitely carbs (sugar) >Citation? Because isn't gout generally thought by the medical establishment to be caused by high-protein, low vegetable diets that raise uric acid? As I've heard from the person doing carnivore this diet is low-protein and high-fat one.
gerdesj 6y ago
There was an article recently in New Scientist about appetite, it was actually the leader as well. 23 May 2020, no 3283. (Subscriber content): https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24632831-400-you-have-five-appetites-not-one-and-they-are-the-key-to-your-health/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24632831-400-you-have... The point of the article is that we have five appetites, not one: protein, carbs, fats, sodium and calcium. Then: "The thing about ultra-processed foods is that they tend to be low in protein – which is expensive – and high in cheap carbs and fats. It is these foods that have largely been responsible for the dilution of protein in Western diets since the 1960s. And the more ultra-processed foods people eat, the more calories they need to consume to get the target intake of protein, with disastrous consequences." So, get your protein (nuts,meat, fish, dairy, etc, etc) in and the rest should follow naturally. Once you fix up your protein intake, you may find that you fix other diet related snags as well. This is another telling quote: "Intriguingly, in our experiments with people, we found that most of the extra calories eaten by those on a low-protein diet came from savoury snacks, especially those that tasted of umami, the signature flavour of protein. Protein-deprived subjects were craving things that tasted like protein, even though they were made of carbs. Our food environment is awash with such umami-flavoured carbs and fats, which we call “protein decoys”: crisps, instant noodles, crackers and so on." I don't think I have overdone it on the quotes but the message is quite clear. You may need this to join the dots: "Ultra-processed foods make us fat, but not because we have strong appetites for the fats and carbs they contain, as is often thought to be the case. Rather, it is because our appetite for protein is stronger than our ability to limit fat and carb intake."

jesperado 6y ago

Not OP but I'm consuming a mostly carnivore diet, I struggled with gout for years and since I went keto and then pretty much carnivore I haven't had a flare up. I eat meat, fish, eggs, cheese and cauliflower (my stool seem fine with or without fiber but a little bit makes me feel more "flushed out", lol). The biggest culprit for gout is definitely carbs (sugar) and dehydration in my opinion and the carnivore diet and/or keto pretty much takes care of that, it eliminates the carbs and meat in my experience makes you drink a lot of water. It is also a lot easier to maintain your weight (also very important in the gout equation) on carnivore, I find it really hard to over eat, you hit satiety fast and I find that there is a lot less noise in the hunger signals. My stomach now days only makes itself reminded when I truly need energy, no "fake" cravings. My mental state also seem clearer, I find fat to be a smoother source of energy then carbs. Fat is a slow stable burn while carbs is a violent explosive burn, which is cool every now and then but you pay a price for it.

UncleOxidant 6y ago
> The biggest culprit for gout is definitely carbs (sugar) Citation? Because isn't gout generally thought by the medical establishment to be caused by high-protein, low vegetable diets that raise uric acid?
- srle 6y ago
  Yes. The carnivore diet stuff is just straight up garbage fad dieting except it sounds cool or whatever so it appeals to insecure dudes. No real substance to it, and everyone I’ve ever seen promote just spits out the same bullshit claims as every other fad diet testimonial (“no more brain fog”) Unless you’ve been instructed to by an actual doctor, switching to a meme internet diet promoted by morons like Jordan Peterson is probably not a great idea.
  - penguinlover05 6y ago
    I wonder if the people who had those "no more brain fog" had an underlying condition in the first place, like vitamin/mineral deficiency, anemia, etc. These problems are rarely checked in the first place.
  - dilap 6y ago
    > Prospective data suggest that consumption of sugar sweetened soft drinks and fructose is strongly associated with an increased risk of gout in men. Furthermore, fructose rich fruits and fruit juices may also increase the risk https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18244959/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18244959/
  - eebynight 6y ago
    I never understood why people get so worked up about what others eat. Like how does this affect you in any way? If it works for people so what? Personally, I would never go that far but it seems like most people aren't getting enough protein and could use a bump.
    - eeZah7Ux 6y ago
      > Like how does this affect you in any way? You can see people you care about getting sick by buying into that absurd diet. Or you care about society in general, as you are part of it. It's also possible to care about strangers in general - it's empathy.
  - jesperado 6y ago
    Most stories I hear about people that try carnivore doesn't do it to get on the next hip thing, these are people that suffered from something for years and out of sheer desperation tried something "wild" and it worked FOR THEM. I don't understand how it is a garbage diet either? You get all the nutrients you need while eliminating pretty much everything else. That to me sounds like an excellent starting ground to then build upon and figure out what YOUR gut is cool with.
- lxdesk 6y ago
  I've come to believe that the confounding factors in whether dietary ideas "work" are micronutrients and the gut biome, and these are still really unexplored areas of medicine. If you have a deficiency of, say, magnesium - that won't be fixed by eating more meat or less sugar, but it might give you strange cravings or bad moods. And if you have a gut that is working inefficiently, it might not adapt well to a high fat diet. And this translates into "bad and good diets", because eating differently reduces the symptoms. But if your body is generally taking in things efficiently, its macronutrient requirements are going to be mostly proportional to your energy use, and then you can have relatively more protein or relatively more carbs without many ill effects. So IMHO a decent starting place for dietary change is not really diet itself, but to take a multivitamin, start intermittent fasting, and to get some daily light, full-body exercise. These things start up the flywheel of reducing ongoing deficiencies and increasing selective pressure on the gut.
- jesperado 6y ago
  No I have no citation for this, you are right, generally that is what you read, and I went down that route as well for several years but the gout just go worse and worse. Switching to high fat, high protein but pretty much zero carbs seems to be the best for me. I believe, again my own conclusion, that it is a insulin issue, I nuked my insulin system for years with carbs (sugar). I'm not a medical person, I got my first gout attack around 24 (33 now) and since then I had at least one major flare up (lasting weeks) every year + a few minor once per year. 2018 I had the mother of all flare ups in my knee, I thought I had experience pain but oh my lord that was pain on a whole nother level. That made me take extreme measures dietary wise and I've been gout free since (knock on wood).
- dawidw 6y ago
  >> The biggest culprit for gout is definitely carbs (sugar) >Citation? Because isn't gout generally thought by the medical establishment to be caused by high-protein, low vegetable diets that raise uric acid? As I've heard from the person doing carnivore this diet is low-protein and high-fat one.

gerdesj 6y ago

There was an article recently in New Scientist about appetite, it was actually the leader as well. 23 May 2020, no 3283. (Subscriber content): https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24632831-400-you-have-five-appetites-not-one-and-they-are-the-key-to-your-health/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24632831-400-you-have... The point of the article is that we have five appetites, not one: protein, carbs, fats, sodium and calcium. Then: "The thing about ultra-processed foods is that they tend to be low in protein – which is expensive – and high in cheap carbs and fats. It is these foods that have largely been responsible for the dilution of protein in Western diets since the 1960s. And the more ultra-processed foods people eat, the more calories they need to consume to get the target intake of protein, with disastrous consequences." So, get your protein (nuts,meat, fish, dairy, etc, etc) in and the rest should follow naturally. Once you fix up your protein intake, you may find that you fix other diet related snags as well. This is another telling quote: "Intriguingly, in our experiments with people, we found that most of the extra calories eaten by those on a low-protein diet came from savoury snacks, especially those that tasted of umami, the signature flavour of protein. Protein-deprived subjects were craving things that tasted like protein, even though they were made of carbs. Our food environment is awash with such umami-flavoured carbs and fats, which we call “protein decoys”: crisps, instant noodles, crackers and so on." I don't think I have overdone it on the quotes but the message is quite clear. You may need this to join the dots: "Ultra-processed foods make us fat, but not because we have strong appetites for the fats and carbs they contain, as is often thought to be the case. Rather, it is because our appetite for protein is stronger than our ability to limit fat and carb intake."