6 ms·

Why do you say: "I use iPhones for the same privacy concerns as many of you"? In the past I have heard rumors that is not true, with a quick search I found out

by nods 6y ago

Why do you say: "I use iPhones for the same privacy concerns as many of you"? In the past I have heard rumors that is not true, with a quick search I found out a recent article on the rumors that I heard once: https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2020/05/21/apple-iphone-ipad-privacy-siri-recordings-ios-upgrade-iphone-11-pro-max-update/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2020/05/21/apple-ip... PS: Either way, I agree with most of your comment. :)

willis936 6y ago
Because the alternative is Android, which is very difficult to de-Google. Even if you do de-Google you need to open yourself up to a swath of security concerns. Why would I trust some internet account that is giving me a binary that compromises my phone for me? Should I trust that it will only do what they say it will do because they are a good person? Would they have nothing to gain for having complete control of my device? So, if the choice of secure phone is between stock Android and stock iPhone, then I think iPhone is the lesser of two privacy evils.
- jneplokh 6y ago
  GrapheneOS is a de-googled Android and secure.
  - nods 6y ago
    I would assume ROMs like LineageOS would be viable as well.
  - tarsinge 6y ago
    What’s the % of users who use that? Until you can buy a de-googled Android phone straight from the store it’s kind of irrelevant to the comparison for the majority of non technical users.
- lern_too_spel 6y ago
  iOS having better privacy is a myth. iOS sends your location to Apple every time any the GPS is used, and you can't turn it off. You cannot install apps on your phone without telling Apple which apps they are, and if you want to develop your own apps for your device without having to reinstall weekly, you have to hand over payment information. Stock Android devices from nearly any vendor do not suffer from these problems, and reputable vendors do even better (like in this case, where even voice transcription does not send data off device).
  - derefr 6y ago
    Those are different things than what most people talking about iOS privacy mean by “privacy.” The thing people usually mean by privacy is “security of personal data and metadata”—i.e. being able to use your phone to break the (perhaps unjust) law, without a state actor being able to then prove you broke the law by forensically analyzing your phone. Phones already leak a lot of circumstantial forensic evidence just by being phones. They talk to cell towers, for instance. So there’s a certain level of information leakage you’re accepting by doing something private on a phone in the first place. The point of choosing one phone over another, for its privacy, should be to secure the phone in all the other ways—to prevent any information from leaking that can be prevented from leaking while retaining the functionality of the phone. In that regard, iOS is usually considered the winner. (Also, iOS is frequently considered the winner just by the fact that Apple devices can’t be interfered with by OEMs at the behest of state actors; in est, the OEM is always Apple, and so the only applicable state actor is the US. If I’m e.g. a Canadian diplomat in China and my phone breaks, I’m not going to trust a Chinese-OEM Android phone, but I might be able to trust a phone I send a plainclothes gofer to buy me from a Chinese Apple Store.)
    - lern_too_spel 6y ago
      > In that regard, iOS is usually considered the winner. That, too, is based in myth. More iPhones have had malware than Android phones available for purchase in Europe and the US by an order of magnitude, and Android vulnerabilities are more expensive than iOS vulnerabilities, so if your standard of privacy is protection from state actors, you should prefer Android devices. > If I’m e.g. a Canadian diplomat in China and my phone breaks, I’m not going to trust a Chinese-OEM Android phone, but I might be able to trust a phone I send a plainclothes gofer to buy me from a Chinese Apple Store.) If you're in China, you're in trouble because the CCP has access to all your iCloud data and any iMessage messages you send while there. Nobody is suggesting that you buy a Chinese OEM phone with who knows what modifications. Just get a Blackberry, Nokia, Google, or Android One device, and you'll be in a much better privacy situation than if you got an iPhone.
- maccard 6y ago
  A degoogled Android phone is also for all intents and purposes useless to many people - my work 2fa, work profile, banking apps, even some games all require Google services.
  - lern_too_spel 6y ago
    Same with a degoogled iOS device. In that respect, they are no different.

by nods 6y ago

willis936 6y ago

Because the alternative is Android, which is very difficult to de-Google. Even if you do de-Google you need to open yourself up to a swath of security concerns. Why would I trust some internet account that is giving me a binary that compromises my phone for me? Should I trust that it will only do what they say it will do because they are a good person? Would they have nothing to gain for having complete control of my device? So, if the choice of secure phone is between stock Android and stock iPhone, then I think iPhone is the lesser of two privacy evils.

jneplokh 6y ago
GrapheneOS is a de-googled Android and secure.
- nods 6y ago
  I would assume ROMs like LineageOS would be viable as well.
- tarsinge 6y ago
  What’s the % of users who use that? Until you can buy a de-googled Android phone straight from the store it’s kind of irrelevant to the comparison for the majority of non technical users.
lern_too_spel 6y ago
iOS having better privacy is a myth. iOS sends your location to Apple every time any the GPS is used, and you can't turn it off. You cannot install apps on your phone without telling Apple which apps they are, and if you want to develop your own apps for your device without having to reinstall weekly, you have to hand over payment information. Stock Android devices from nearly any vendor do not suffer from these problems, and reputable vendors do even better (like in this case, where even voice transcription does not send data off device).
- derefr 6y ago
  Those are different things than what most people talking about iOS privacy mean by “privacy.” The thing people usually mean by privacy is “security of personal data and metadata”—i.e. being able to use your phone to break the (perhaps unjust) law, without a state actor being able to then prove you broke the law by forensically analyzing your phone. Phones already leak a lot of circumstantial forensic evidence just by being phones. They talk to cell towers, for instance. So there’s a certain level of information leakage you’re accepting by doing something private on a phone in the first place. The point of choosing one phone over another, for its privacy, should be to secure the phone in all the other ways—to prevent any information from leaking that can be prevented from leaking while retaining the functionality of the phone. In that regard, iOS is usually considered the winner. (Also, iOS is frequently considered the winner just by the fact that Apple devices can’t be interfered with by OEMs at the behest of state actors; in est, the OEM is always Apple, and so the only applicable state actor is the US. If I’m e.g. a Canadian diplomat in China and my phone breaks, I’m not going to trust a Chinese-OEM Android phone, but I might be able to trust a phone I send a plainclothes gofer to buy me from a Chinese Apple Store.)
  - lern_too_spel 6y ago
    > In that regard, iOS is usually considered the winner. That, too, is based in myth. More iPhones have had malware than Android phones available for purchase in Europe and the US by an order of magnitude, and Android vulnerabilities are more expensive than iOS vulnerabilities, so if your standard of privacy is protection from state actors, you should prefer Android devices. > If I’m e.g. a Canadian diplomat in China and my phone breaks, I’m not going to trust a Chinese-OEM Android phone, but I might be able to trust a phone I send a plainclothes gofer to buy me from a Chinese Apple Store.) If you're in China, you're in trouble because the CCP has access to all your iCloud data and any iMessage messages you send while there. Nobody is suggesting that you buy a Chinese OEM phone with who knows what modifications. Just get a Blackberry, Nokia, Google, or Android One device, and you'll be in a much better privacy situation than if you got an iPhone.
maccard 6y ago
A degoogled Android phone is also for all intents and purposes useless to many people - my work 2fa, work profile, banking apps, even some games all require Google services.
- lern_too_spel 6y ago
  Same with a degoogled iOS device. In that respect, they are no different.