6 ms·

I wonder if they worry about other areas of China asking for or demanding the same freedoms and democracy as Hong Kong. "Because it used to be a British colony"

I wonder if they worry about other areas of China asking for or demanding the same freedoms and democracy as Hong Kong. "Because it used to be a British colony" doesn't feel like a good justification for massive variations in internal political systems for the people on the wrong side of the border.

dirtyid 6y ago
Only HK nativism, violence and separatism gets filtered through domestic Chinese media. What most mainlanders see are dumb kids protecting their "privileges" by burning down their own city and appealing to foreign powers to intervene (aka treason). The protests has staunched appetite for western values and systems in the mainland, solidified by how poor most western countries have responded to covid. I guess framed that way it's sad that mainlanders would rather strip HK freedoms than ask for their own, but the reality is, HK protesters are viewed as exploiting privileges bestowed through lottery of birth, to undermine the rest of the country, so maybe such privileges are not worth having en-mass in the first place. The justification is HK has been dragging their feet on implementing required National Security legislation. There was no set deadline, I think it was left open ended to easy transition. But it's been 23 years. Despite efforts ongoing for the past 10, now the sentiment at the top is they focused too long on 2 systems instead of 1 country. For the CCP, it's ridiculous they have no extradition process with a region under it's control, especially for recent "anti-state" actions. This was recognized a long time ago, hence the efforts at patriotic education and national security law ~10 years ago because the idea of identity and cultural divergence was a risk to longterm integration. Same with Uyghurs and Tibetans. Best to crush the lost generation now and start again.
- Melting_Harps 6y ago
  > solidified by how poor most western countries have responded to covid. As opposed to mainland efforts, which include a masse invasion of mainlanders into Hong Kong despite local opposition and continued warnings by Health Professionals? China was the WORST of all for letting this spread in the first place rather then letting it remain localized in Wuhan when they knew of its outbreaks. Arresting and disappearing physicians and journalists who tried to warn the World in the process, and lying via the WHO and continuing to lie about the severity of COVID, as seen with the most recent outbreak of infections [1]. I grant you most Western nations policies were too little, too late by January 2020 as vectors from Wuhan had flown all over the World, but this is a pandemic caused directly by CCP policy to lie and manipulate and outright hijack the narrative of its cause and origin, which lies solely with China. And the blame lies solely on them for this occurring, which in my view having followed the Hong Kong protests since 2014 is analogous to Biological Warfare and they should be tried for Crimes Against Humanity. > For the CCP, it's ridiculous they have no extradition process with a region under it's control, especially for recent "anti-state" actions. This was recognized a long time ago, hence the efforts at patriotic education and national security law ~10 years ago because the idea of identity and cultural divergence was a risk to longterm integration. Same with Uyghurs and Tibetans. How is a supposed autonomous region supposed to conduct itself when its citizens can be detained for the same absurd violations that occur on the mainland? Which include disrespecting Xi on the internet? Especially for a region with Western Values and customs pertaining to Free Speech? > Best to crush the lost generation now and start again. What you call 'patriotic education' is Soviet Union style brainwashing and conditioning for State worship. Are you seriously advocating for masse genocide and internment prisons to usher in this supposed Glory age for the CCP? I'd call you a Wumao but you are straight up a CCP indoctrinated fool if you are saying what I think you are.
  - dirtyid 6y ago
    Explanation =/= endorsement. The reality is those indoctrinated by western liberal values will clash those indoctrinated by CCP values, and ultimately the CCP themselves. That's an inevitable contradiction with 1C2S. At the end of the day 1.4 billion is not going to change for 7 million. The only realistic option for HK was to gravitate towards the Chinese system, the most optimal condition would be akin to Singapore, nominal dictatorship with many familiar freedoms circumscribed by one party restricted press. Last I checked, most Singaporeans liked Singapore fine. But the protesters opted to for universal suffrage & not one less, that will never happen especially after treasonous appeals to foreign parties. So the movement must to be broken, better cauterize the wound now than let it bleed and be infected by foreign agents in the difficult times ahead. No need to genocide or mass internment. Integrate HK into greater bayarea, squeeze protesters into margins of society and out of HK by blacklisting them from local opportunities, disperse 4/7 million rebellious voices until it's drowned out by 66/70 million pro-CCP voices. Basically what Social Credit was designed to do: expel non-productive people or those that burden Chinese development out of privileged areas and visibility. Indoctrinate new generation to comport to CCP values, replaced displaced dissenters with mainlanders. Two options after. HK becomes just another tamed Chinese city. 15 years into the process, they can start building HK back up into a model city filled with "loyal" citizenry, which leaves another 14 years to try to convince new voting generation in Taiwan that 1C2S could still work. Assuming US containment fails. Which it very well might.
    - Melting_Harps 6y ago
      > Explanation =/= endorsement. I'd try to rebuttal, but it seems entirely worthless to do so. But your response to Sesame Credit highlights why this needs to be stopped. And the Truth is the same model is being rolled out in Africa as well as the regions of 'Greater China.' > Basically what Social Credit was designed to do: expel non-productive people or those that burden Chinese development [CCP Agenda] out of privileged areas and visibility. Indoctrinate new generation to comport to CCP values, replaced displaced dissenters with mainlanders [Colonialism].

dirtyid 6y ago

Only HK nativism, violence and separatism gets filtered through domestic Chinese media. What most mainlanders see are dumb kids protecting their "privileges" by burning down their own city and appealing to foreign powers to intervene (aka treason). The protests has staunched appetite for western values and systems in the mainland, solidified by how poor most western countries have responded to covid. I guess framed that way it's sad that mainlanders would rather strip HK freedoms than ask for their own, but the reality is, HK protesters are viewed as exploiting privileges bestowed through lottery of birth, to undermine the rest of the country, so maybe such privileges are not worth having en-mass in the first place. The justification is HK has been dragging their feet on implementing required National Security legislation. There was no set deadline, I think it was left open ended to easy transition. But it's been 23 years. Despite efforts ongoing for the past 10, now the sentiment at the top is they focused too long on 2 systems instead of 1 country. For the CCP, it's ridiculous they have no extradition process with a region under it's control, especially for recent "anti-state" actions. This was recognized a long time ago, hence the efforts at patriotic education and national security law ~10 years ago because the idea of identity and cultural divergence was a risk to longterm integration. Same with Uyghurs and Tibetans. Best to crush the lost generation now and start again.

Melting_Harps 6y ago
> solidified by how poor most western countries have responded to covid. As opposed to mainland efforts, which include a masse invasion of mainlanders into Hong Kong despite local opposition and continued warnings by Health Professionals? China was the WORST of all for letting this spread in the first place rather then letting it remain localized in Wuhan when they knew of its outbreaks. Arresting and disappearing physicians and journalists who tried to warn the World in the process, and lying via the WHO and continuing to lie about the severity of COVID, as seen with the most recent outbreak of infections [1]. I grant you most Western nations policies were too little, too late by January 2020 as vectors from Wuhan had flown all over the World, but this is a pandemic caused directly by CCP policy to lie and manipulate and outright hijack the narrative of its cause and origin, which lies solely with China. And the blame lies solely on them for this occurring, which in my view having followed the Hong Kong protests since 2014 is analogous to Biological Warfare and they should be tried for Crimes Against Humanity. > For the CCP, it's ridiculous they have no extradition process with a region under it's control, especially for recent "anti-state" actions. This was recognized a long time ago, hence the efforts at patriotic education and national security law ~10 years ago because the idea of identity and cultural divergence was a risk to longterm integration. Same with Uyghurs and Tibetans. How is a supposed autonomous region supposed to conduct itself when its citizens can be detained for the same absurd violations that occur on the mainland? Which include disrespecting Xi on the internet? Especially for a region with Western Values and customs pertaining to Free Speech? > Best to crush the lost generation now and start again. What you call 'patriotic education' is Soviet Union style brainwashing and conditioning for State worship. Are you seriously advocating for masse genocide and internment prisons to usher in this supposed Glory age for the CCP? I'd call you a Wumao but you are straight up a CCP indoctrinated fool if you are saying what I think you are.
- dirtyid 6y ago
  Explanation =/= endorsement. The reality is those indoctrinated by western liberal values will clash those indoctrinated by CCP values, and ultimately the CCP themselves. That's an inevitable contradiction with 1C2S. At the end of the day 1.4 billion is not going to change for 7 million. The only realistic option for HK was to gravitate towards the Chinese system, the most optimal condition would be akin to Singapore, nominal dictatorship with many familiar freedoms circumscribed by one party restricted press. Last I checked, most Singaporeans liked Singapore fine. But the protesters opted to for universal suffrage & not one less, that will never happen especially after treasonous appeals to foreign parties. So the movement must to be broken, better cauterize the wound now than let it bleed and be infected by foreign agents in the difficult times ahead. No need to genocide or mass internment. Integrate HK into greater bayarea, squeeze protesters into margins of society and out of HK by blacklisting them from local opportunities, disperse 4/7 million rebellious voices until it's drowned out by 66/70 million pro-CCP voices. Basically what Social Credit was designed to do: expel non-productive people or those that burden Chinese development out of privileged areas and visibility. Indoctrinate new generation to comport to CCP values, replaced displaced dissenters with mainlanders. Two options after. HK becomes just another tamed Chinese city. 15 years into the process, they can start building HK back up into a model city filled with "loyal" citizenry, which leaves another 14 years to try to convince new voting generation in Taiwan that 1C2S could still work. Assuming US containment fails. Which it very well might.
  - Melting_Harps 6y ago
    > Explanation =/= endorsement. I'd try to rebuttal, but it seems entirely worthless to do so. But your response to Sesame Credit highlights why this needs to be stopped. And the Truth is the same model is being rolled out in Africa as well as the regions of 'Greater China.' > Basically what Social Credit was designed to do: expel non-productive people or those that burden Chinese development [CCP Agenda] out of privileged areas and visibility. Indoctrinate new generation to comport to CCP values, replaced displaced dissenters with mainlanders [Colonialism].