7 ms·

Email doesn't naturally involve the web? What?

rpeden 6y ago
Email over ARPANET and the internet predates the web by a couple of decades. The way we use email hasn't really changed that much since the 70s.
yliu 6y ago
Ray Tomlinson's design for email came in the 70s. RFC 788 (SMTP) was published in 1981. Email predates the Web, and, imo, has been made much worse by all the Web-adjacent features shoved into it.
PNWChris 6y ago
I believe they’re referring to the web as port 80/443 http(s) traffic. It’s the old World Wide Web vs internet distinction, if you will. Email really is just a protocol for message sending, and it lives on it’s own port with its own server. If you have an email client and access to an email server (POP/SMTP/however), you can use email over the internet but without the “web”. Basically, the web email client ought not be the only email client.
- WilliamEdward 6y ago
  It was the ambiguity of the word 'web' that tripped me up. You still need a network of computers for email to be useful.
  - macintux 6y ago
    I don’t think you’ll find many people here who agree that “web” is ambiguous.
  - Jtsummers 6y ago
    `Web`[0] is shorthand for `World Wide Web` which is specifically about HTTP/HTTPS and/or the applications built on that protocol. It is an entirely unambiguous word in this context. `Internet`[1] is distinct, and that's the general purpose network of networks that you refer to which the Web is built on top of. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Web https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Web [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet
  - PNWChris 6y ago
    Totally fair! Frankly, I only know the distinction from a high school computers teacher who was adamant about the distinction. I guess the easiest way to get the name is to see the “Web” as a “web” of hyper text documents, where hyperlinks act as the strands in the web (graph edges, if you will). Honestly, like you say, it’s all built on top of a computer network (yet another web/graph). As a consequence, the distinction never really made a ton of sense to me, either. Alas, this is the common parlance, so it is what it is.
goatlover 6y ago
Nope, different protocols. You don't need web browsers for email, and the email clients that run in web browsers are using mail servers to send and receive. If the web didn't exist, which it didn't prior to 1991, email would still work fine. There just wouldn't be any web-based email clients.

Email over ARPANET and the internet predates the web by a couple of decades. The way we use email hasn't really changed that much since the 70s.

yliu 6y ago

Ray Tomlinson's design for email came in the 70s. RFC 788 (SMTP) was published in 1981. Email predates the Web, and, imo, has been made much worse by all the Web-adjacent features shoved into it.

PNWChris 6y ago

I believe they’re referring to the web as port 80/443 http(s) traffic. It’s the old World Wide Web vs internet distinction, if you will. Email really is just a protocol for message sending, and it lives on it’s own port with its own server. If you have an email client and access to an email server (POP/SMTP/however), you can use email over the internet but without the “web”. Basically, the web email client ought not be the only email client.

WilliamEdward 6y ago
It was the ambiguity of the word 'web' that tripped me up. You still need a network of computers for email to be useful.
- macintux 6y ago
  I don’t think you’ll find many people here who agree that “web” is ambiguous.
- Jtsummers 6y ago
  `Web`[0] is shorthand for `World Wide Web` which is specifically about HTTP/HTTPS and/or the applications built on that protocol. It is an entirely unambiguous word in this context. `Internet`[1] is distinct, and that's the general purpose network of networks that you refer to which the Web is built on top of. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Web https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Web [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet
- PNWChris 6y ago
  Totally fair! Frankly, I only know the distinction from a high school computers teacher who was adamant about the distinction. I guess the easiest way to get the name is to see the “Web” as a “web” of hyper text documents, where hyperlinks act as the strands in the web (graph edges, if you will). Honestly, like you say, it’s all built on top of a computer network (yet another web/graph). As a consequence, the distinction never really made a ton of sense to me, either. Alas, this is the common parlance, so it is what it is.

goatlover 6y ago

Nope, different protocols. You don't need web browsers for email, and the email clients that run in web browsers are using mail servers to send and receive. If the web didn't exist, which it didn't prior to 1991, email would still work fine. There just wouldn't be any web-based email clients.