12 ms·

I am not an expert, but 75k seems disproportionate from the effort and time the requirements seem to be looking for. For the lofty goal of "Fix the internet", 7

by _t0du 6y ago

I am not an expert, but 75k seems disproportionate from the effort and time the requirements seem to be looking for. For the lofty goal of "Fix the internet", 75k seems more like "An extra few weeks of runway." What am I missing?

lightninglu10 6y ago
Hey Alex, the $75k is just a start! We're funding projects who are just starting out / getting off the ground. Imagine you have a big vision to build something that betters the internet and you have only your life savings. Or you've been working on something for a while but haven't been able to put full effort into it. This $75k is to kickstart teams & projects in "fixing the internet".
- alexbanks 6y ago
  Are there groups that have A.) A team assembled, B.) A product that's far enough along to have C.) Users, who 75 grand makes a meaningful impact? Is the expectation that those teams maintain other jobs while working with the incubator? ^ Probably a more succinct way to ask my question. I hope it's clear that I'm not trying to negatively paint the program, it's clearly more than most companies are doing to fix the internet. 75k is just the lowest amount of money I've seen with respect to incubators/funding (but again, I am not an expert).
  - lightninglu10 6y ago
    This is our first time running this Summer Incubator ($75k iteration), BUT we are in the middle of our Spring MVP Program. These teams each got around $8-10k. We have some really good projects from this much smaller program, including https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/neutral/oagdejngkgbfnaankoehhanicaodcdpd?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/neutral/oagdejngkg... (Firefox extension releasing this week), https://ameelio.org/ https://ameelio.org/, and more! So we're not entirely sure whether $75k is the right amount or not, BUT we do know that with $10k, we've had some really impressive projects.
    - somishere 6y ago
      Neutral looks cool. Look forward to trying it out once it's released (tho permissions on the chrome version seem a bit ominous, plus their website is broken!)
      - marissajliu 6y ago
        Hey it's Marissa from the Neutral team. Thanks for checking our tool out! Just want to mention that Neutral only accesses data on supported shopping sites like Amazon to perform carbon footprint calculations. Sorry about the broken site! We're currently fixing it up along with the release of our tool on Firefox!
PudgePacket 6y ago
Weeks? A startup looking for funding of this amount shouldn't be burning anywhere near that amount (tens of thousands a week!) This should be months, up to a year for 1-2 founder team.
- alexbanks 6y ago
  ...How? 3 people / 75k = 25k per person. At a reasonable 100k/year earning potential, that means that 75k a year is 3 months of time?
  - PudgePacket 6y ago
    You pay yourself what you need to survive and use the rest to re-invest in the company, extend the runway, do marketing, etc. You can't walk away from your day job at $BIGCO, start your own company and expect to get paid like you used to, it doesn't work like that (at least at the beginning). Your pay is having a large % ownership in (what you think will be) a valuable company down the line.
    - alexbanks 6y ago
      It seems kinda wild to suggest a fair deal is making ever so slightly above minimum wage for an already established team, company, product, userbase, no? My issue, I guess, is not with salary, but moreso the value add. 75k does not seem like enough to A.) Live on, really, B.) Extend runway, really, C.) "Fix the internet", really. I can understand trading in cash for agency, I would absolutely do it. But this doesn't really seem like that either, given that presumably lots of founders would need to either seek further funding or work second jobs.
      - PudgePacket 6y ago
        I don't think you'd go for this if you're an already established company. 75k is for 1-2 people who have probably launched less than 6 months ago or are launching with that money. It's also not just the money. It's credibility by being invested in mozilla (and an investor who is invested in you having more successful funding rounds), it's the marketing and hype that come with it, it's the opportunities to employ people, it's the connections that come from being acquainted with investors and a tech giant, etc.
retox 6y ago
$16k is a LOT of money for someone with an idea, don't think about it from the perspective of the expense to Mozilla but from the perspective of the people/groups receiving the compensation. Companies that have gone on to become titans have started with much less.
majewsky 6y ago
What salary levels are your calculations based on? For a solo founder in Germany, 75k should be enough runway for roughly 2 years, more if their business is at least ramen-profitable, less if they have more employees of course.
- alexbanks 6y ago
  My salary calcs are based on A.) Primarily west-coast based American SE wages, B.) The presumption that the group already has a "team" (aka more than 1 person) assembled and a product already launched (as per the requirements of the 75k program). Two people living on 38k a year sounds like a great way to not have legitimate talent apply.
  - majewsky 6y ago
    38k a year is in the range of my actual gross salary as a mid-level software developer in Germany, although it should be noted that I work 70% part-time. It would certainly be enough to cover an entry-level developer or a founder who's willing to take a smaller pay in exchange for the freedom of working on their own project. And that's before we consider startups located in Eastern Europe where cost of living is lower, but you can still find competent developers there.
    - alexbanks 6y ago
      And that may be true, I am just pointing out that trying to "Fix the internet" by pandering to mid level developers seems like wasted effort.

by _t0du 6y ago

lightninglu10 6y ago

Hey Alex, the $75k is just a start! We're funding projects who are just starting out / getting off the ground. Imagine you have a big vision to build something that betters the internet and you have only your life savings. Or you've been working on something for a while but haven't been able to put full effort into it. This $75k is to kickstart teams & projects in "fixing the internet".

alexbanks 6y ago
Are there groups that have A.) A team assembled, B.) A product that's far enough along to have C.) Users, who 75 grand makes a meaningful impact? Is the expectation that those teams maintain other jobs while working with the incubator? ^ Probably a more succinct way to ask my question. I hope it's clear that I'm not trying to negatively paint the program, it's clearly more than most companies are doing to fix the internet. 75k is just the lowest amount of money I've seen with respect to incubators/funding (but again, I am not an expert).
- lightninglu10 6y ago
  This is our first time running this Summer Incubator ($75k iteration), BUT we are in the middle of our Spring MVP Program. These teams each got around $8-10k. We have some really good projects from this much smaller program, including https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/neutral/oagdejngkgbfnaankoehhanicaodcdpd?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/neutral/oagdejngkg... (Firefox extension releasing this week), https://ameelio.org/ https://ameelio.org/, and more! So we're not entirely sure whether $75k is the right amount or not, BUT we do know that with $10k, we've had some really impressive projects.
  - somishere 6y ago
    Neutral looks cool. Look forward to trying it out once it's released (tho permissions on the chrome version seem a bit ominous, plus their website is broken!)
    - marissajliu 6y ago
      Hey it's Marissa from the Neutral team. Thanks for checking our tool out! Just want to mention that Neutral only accesses data on supported shopping sites like Amazon to perform carbon footprint calculations. Sorry about the broken site! We're currently fixing it up along with the release of our tool on Firefox!

PudgePacket 6y ago

Weeks? A startup looking for funding of this amount shouldn't be burning anywhere near that amount (tens of thousands a week!) This should be months, up to a year for 1-2 founder team.

alexbanks 6y ago
...How? 3 people / 75k = 25k per person. At a reasonable 100k/year earning potential, that means that 75k a year is 3 months of time?
- PudgePacket 6y ago
  You pay yourself what you need to survive and use the rest to re-invest in the company, extend the runway, do marketing, etc. You can't walk away from your day job at $BIGCO, start your own company and expect to get paid like you used to, it doesn't work like that (at least at the beginning). Your pay is having a large % ownership in (what you think will be) a valuable company down the line.
  - alexbanks 6y ago
    It seems kinda wild to suggest a fair deal is making ever so slightly above minimum wage for an already established team, company, product, userbase, no? My issue, I guess, is not with salary, but moreso the value add. 75k does not seem like enough to A.) Live on, really, B.) Extend runway, really, C.) "Fix the internet", really. I can understand trading in cash for agency, I would absolutely do it. But this doesn't really seem like that either, given that presumably lots of founders would need to either seek further funding or work second jobs.
    - PudgePacket 6y ago
      I don't think you'd go for this if you're an already established company. 75k is for 1-2 people who have probably launched less than 6 months ago or are launching with that money. It's also not just the money. It's credibility by being invested in mozilla (and an investor who is invested in you having more successful funding rounds), it's the marketing and hype that come with it, it's the opportunities to employ people, it's the connections that come from being acquainted with investors and a tech giant, etc.

retox 6y ago

$16k is a LOT of money for someone with an idea, don't think about it from the perspective of the expense to Mozilla but from the perspective of the people/groups receiving the compensation. Companies that have gone on to become titans have started with much less.

majewsky 6y ago

What salary levels are your calculations based on? For a solo founder in Germany, 75k should be enough runway for roughly 2 years, more if their business is at least ramen-profitable, less if they have more employees of course.

alexbanks 6y ago
My salary calcs are based on A.) Primarily west-coast based American SE wages, B.) The presumption that the group already has a "team" (aka more than 1 person) assembled and a product already launched (as per the requirements of the 75k program). Two people living on 38k a year sounds like a great way to not have legitimate talent apply.
- majewsky 6y ago
  38k a year is in the range of my actual gross salary as a mid-level software developer in Germany, although it should be noted that I work 70% part-time. It would certainly be enough to cover an entry-level developer or a founder who's willing to take a smaller pay in exchange for the freedom of working on their own project. And that's before we consider startups located in Eastern Europe where cost of living is lower, but you can still find competent developers there.
  - alexbanks 6y ago
    And that may be true, I am just pointing out that trying to "Fix the internet" by pandering to mid level developers seems like wasted effort.