5 ms·

There is http://iabak.archiveteam.org http://iabak.archiveteam.org, but it’s not exactly large.

microcolonel 6y ago
If I'm reading that correctly, it would only cost a bit over 500 bucks a month to host that whole archive on BackBlaze B2. Furthermore it would not be so hard to translate Archive.org items to IPFS objects, if there were an effort to pin a significant number of them to storage and network.
- dmd 6y ago
  You're reading it correctly, but IABAK backs up 0.2% of the Internet Archive.
- Endlessly 6y ago
  Since numbers are not 100% clear... (50 petabytes * 0.2% = 100 terabytes) [$0.005 ($/GB/Month) BackBlaze cost] [(50 petabytes) / (1 gigabyte) = 50,000,000] (50,000,000 * $0.005 = $250,000 US$) ————— Meaning based on my numbers, that is $250,000 USD a month to host 50 petabytes of data on BackBlaze.
  - ramraj07 6y ago
    That's a fraction of the AWS bills for many startups arguably doing absolutely nothing
    - TeMPOraL 6y ago
      They have VC money to burn. Archive.org doesn't. Also, those backups would be (relatively) cheap to keep, but not necessarily to restore.
      - jfkebwjsbx 6y ago
        I would guess restore wouldn't be a problem. AWS or whoever would do it for free given it is a non-profit (in case of a disaster only, of course).
- sp332 6y ago
  The effort is the issue here. There was this comment back when IA.BAK was in design phase https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9148576 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9148576 And then this is all there was to show for it: https://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=INTERNETARCHIVE.BAK/ipfs_implementation https://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=INTERNETARCHIVE....
  - microcolonel 6y ago
    Yeah, I noticed that being a problem. My biggest problems with IPFS are hardly mentioned in their updates, and it's hard to tell if they have any interest. I had constant issues with objects simply never (hours and many requests) being found, despite being pinned in several places; and the daemon sucked resources away from the system at an alarming rate back when I was trying properly. With all that being said, maybe now is the time to look at it properly, the budgets are there. Maybe Juan, _prometheus, can find somebody to at least PoC this important application.
dmd 6y ago
The IA is about 50 PB. IABAK stores 100 TB, or 0.2% of it.
- EdJiang 6y ago
  You can get an 8TB HDD for $150 right now. That's 6250 drives. That's about $1MM in drives, which doesn't sound that cost-prohibitive. Obviously that's not the whole cost since you need to pay for bandwidth, replication and other infrastructure like the host node, but it sounds like something that could be even hosted by a number of volunteers on r/datahoarder or r/homelab. I also remember reading about Sia on HN, which is a dapp that pays hosts to store data and distributes it. Looking at the going rates on Sia ($1.45/TB/mo), that's $870k/yr. That's ~10% of the IA budget (which is only $10MM/yr, which sounds very efficient!) but shows that the order of magnitude is not that crazy.
  - phonon 6y ago
    BackBlaze B2 is $5/TB/month Azure Archive is $2/TB/month ($1.68 if reserved) AWS Glacier Deep Archive is $1/TB/month GCP Cloud Storage Archive is $1.20/TB/month Of course, there can be i/o and network charges, and different levels of redundancy (but possibly bulk discounts)...but the bare storage costs for for 50 PB per year would be roughly $600k - $3 MM/y.
    - est31 6y ago
      The cloud business is a small fraction of Amazon's revenue but a large part of their profits. It's extremely profitable for them. That's why there is such a large discrepancy between (non bulk) HDD price and (non bulk) per month cost for archival.
    - TeMPOraL 6y ago
      Aren't the costs of getting that data out of the backup much larger than the cost of keeping it in the first place, to the point that when you actually need to restore a large backup, it turns out it was better to have been managing it yourself? That's the impression I got from various HN comments on the topic over the years.
sp332 6y ago
It definitely stalled out. It needs a Windows version to get real traction IMO.

If I'm reading that correctly, it would only cost a bit over 500 bucks a month to host that whole archive on BackBlaze B2. Furthermore it would not be so hard to translate Archive.org items to IPFS objects, if there were an effort to pin a significant number of them to storage and network.

dmd 6y ago
You're reading it correctly, but IABAK backs up 0.2% of the Internet Archive.
Endlessly 6y ago
Since numbers are not 100% clear... (50 petabytes * 0.2% = 100 terabytes) [$0.005 ($/GB/Month) BackBlaze cost] [(50 petabytes) / (1 gigabyte) = 50,000,000] (50,000,000 * $0.005 = $250,000 US$) ————— Meaning based on my numbers, that is $250,000 USD a month to host 50 petabytes of data on BackBlaze.
- ramraj07 6y ago
  That's a fraction of the AWS bills for many startups arguably doing absolutely nothing
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    They have VC money to burn. Archive.org doesn't. Also, those backups would be (relatively) cheap to keep, but not necessarily to restore.
    - jfkebwjsbx 6y ago
      I would guess restore wouldn't be a problem. AWS or whoever would do it for free given it is a non-profit (in case of a disaster only, of course).
sp332 6y ago
The effort is the issue here. There was this comment back when IA.BAK was in design phase https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9148576 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9148576 And then this is all there was to show for it: https://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=INTERNETARCHIVE.BAK/ipfs_implementation https://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=INTERNETARCHIVE....
- microcolonel 6y ago
  Yeah, I noticed that being a problem. My biggest problems with IPFS are hardly mentioned in their updates, and it's hard to tell if they have any interest. I had constant issues with objects simply never (hours and many requests) being found, despite being pinned in several places; and the daemon sucked resources away from the system at an alarming rate back when I was trying properly. With all that being said, maybe now is the time to look at it properly, the budgets are there. Maybe Juan, _prometheus, can find somebody to at least PoC this important application.

dmd 6y ago

The IA is about 50 PB. IABAK stores 100 TB, or 0.2% of it.

EdJiang 6y ago
You can get an 8TB HDD for $150 right now. That's 6250 drives. That's about $1MM in drives, which doesn't sound that cost-prohibitive. Obviously that's not the whole cost since you need to pay for bandwidth, replication and other infrastructure like the host node, but it sounds like something that could be even hosted by a number of volunteers on r/datahoarder or r/homelab. I also remember reading about Sia on HN, which is a dapp that pays hosts to store data and distributes it. Looking at the going rates on Sia ($1.45/TB/mo), that's $870k/yr. That's ~10% of the IA budget (which is only $10MM/yr, which sounds very efficient!) but shows that the order of magnitude is not that crazy.
- phonon 6y ago
  BackBlaze B2 is $5/TB/month Azure Archive is $2/TB/month ($1.68 if reserved) AWS Glacier Deep Archive is $1/TB/month GCP Cloud Storage Archive is $1.20/TB/month Of course, there can be i/o and network charges, and different levels of redundancy (but possibly bulk discounts)...but the bare storage costs for for 50 PB per year would be roughly $600k - $3 MM/y.
  - est31 6y ago
    The cloud business is a small fraction of Amazon's revenue but a large part of their profits. It's extremely profitable for them. That's why there is such a large discrepancy between (non bulk) HDD price and (non bulk) per month cost for archival.
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    Aren't the costs of getting that data out of the backup much larger than the cost of keeping it in the first place, to the point that when you actually need to restore a large backup, it turns out it was better to have been managing it yourself? That's the impression I got from various HN comments on the topic over the years.

sp332 6y ago

It definitely stalled out. It needs a Windows version to get real traction IMO.