6 ms·

There was so much fear-making in Vienna when they pushed for a pedestrian-first shopping mile in the city center. It would destroy economy.. People wouldn't com

There was so much fear-making in Vienna when they pushed for a pedestrian-first shopping mile in the city center. It would destroy economy.. People wouldn't come anymore with there car to buy stuff.. And what happened? A lot more people came, people going just for walks etc. Business increased substantially and now the chamber of commerce (which was heavily lobbying against it) wants even more "Begegnungszonen" as they clearly improve business for the shops located there!

btilly 6y ago
Reminds me of bars in NYC back when smoking bans were implemented. They all thought they would lose business. They gained it instead as new customers who had been avoiding bars because of the smell of smoke flocked there instead.
- spodek 6y ago
  Moreover, Hoboken had to ban smoking too to regain its residents preferring smoke-free bars and restaurants in the city -- the opposite of naysayers' expectations. It will happen with cars and plastic here (NYC) too. I hope the polluters don't resist as much.
  - astura 6y ago
    I'm a member of a private club (not in ny) that allowed smoking well past the law disallowed smoking in the public places. Business started struggling several years back, finally, they realized that the problem was they allowed smoking so they voluntary banned it and now business is much better.
- epx 6y ago
  Impossible not to cite https://dilbert.com/strip/1994-02-26 https://dilbert.com/strip/1994-02-26
- 2019-nCoV 6y ago
  That analogy breaks down as smokers had no alternative. After bars banned smoking they lost few (if any) smoking customers while relishing in troves from the non-smoking demographic. Car-centric Viennese can still avoid Begegnungszonen.
  - petre 6y ago
    Of course they did: quit smoking, smoke outside.
    - vladvasiliu 6y ago
      Smokers had no alternative as in no other place where to take their business. Smokers themselves were not banned from bars, just the act of smoking. People of Vienna who wanted to go shopping in their cars could have went shopping in some other shops accessible by car. There were no bars where the smokers could have went to smoke.
      - petre 6y ago
        Outside? It's weird, because I've been to a restaurant in Vienna and they had a three by two metre windowed and ventilated smoking compartment where smokers were enjoying their habit. In my country it's completeley banned in closed public spaces as it should be.
- analog31 6y ago
  The opposite happened in my locale. I'm a musician, so I welcomed not having to come home from a performance covered in smoke. The bottom dropped out of the bar business. Now this might be the difference -- my town is mid sized and a lot more sprawly. My hypothesis is that folks had for years settled into lifestyles that didn't involve going to bars, and moved into zones that had few or no bars. When the city banned smoking, folks didn't suddenly change their lifestyles. It's been something like a decade, and things have kind of gotten back to normal (present circumstances aside, of course). But it took a long time.
  - hadlock 6y ago
    Online dating also started to take off about the same time that smoking in bars was banned. Between online video games and online dating, the options for "socializing" after work have increased substantially in the last 20 years.
- collyw 6y ago
  Sounds like the opposite effect that it had in the UK.
  - yrro 6y ago
    I don't know how you can isolate the effect of the smoking ban from the other factors that have affected the rate of pubgoing.
pietrovismara 6y ago
Are you talking about Mariahilferstraße? If yes it's really good now, can't believe there was resistance to make it pedestrian-first. Hard to imagine how much less livable was the area with regular car traffic. One thing that puzzles me, living in Vienna as an expat, is how much the average Austrian cared about banning smoke in bars/restaurants/etc (which is fine, don't get me wrong) but how little they do about car smog.
- bootloop 6y ago
  Yes, I meant the Mahü. 1908 - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Mariahilferstrasse_1908_Stauda.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Mariahil... 2006 - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Mariahilferstrasse1.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Mariahil... Today - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Wien_07_Mariahilfer_Stra%C3%9Fe_Shopping_f.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Wien_07_... Smoking was definitely the much bigger problem. The average Austrian, if he doesn't life in Vienna, is simply not confronted with smog. I guess what helps tremendously to cover up the smog problem is they constant wind we have. Honestly I only realized that it could be a lot better after my London visit. Until then I only have seen cities which were much worse then Vienna w.r.t smog.
  - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
    >The average Austrian, if he doesn't life in Vienna, is simply not confronted with smog. "coughs in Graz smog"

btilly 6y ago

Reminds me of bars in NYC back when smoking bans were implemented. They all thought they would lose business. They gained it instead as new customers who had been avoiding bars because of the smell of smoke flocked there instead.

spodek 6y ago
Moreover, Hoboken had to ban smoking too to regain its residents preferring smoke-free bars and restaurants in the city -- the opposite of naysayers' expectations. It will happen with cars and plastic here (NYC) too. I hope the polluters don't resist as much.
- astura 6y ago
  I'm a member of a private club (not in ny) that allowed smoking well past the law disallowed smoking in the public places. Business started struggling several years back, finally, they realized that the problem was they allowed smoking so they voluntary banned it and now business is much better.
epx 6y ago
Impossible not to cite https://dilbert.com/strip/1994-02-26 https://dilbert.com/strip/1994-02-26
2019-nCoV 6y ago
That analogy breaks down as smokers had no alternative. After bars banned smoking they lost few (if any) smoking customers while relishing in troves from the non-smoking demographic. Car-centric Viennese can still avoid Begegnungszonen.
- petre 6y ago
  Of course they did: quit smoking, smoke outside.
  - vladvasiliu 6y ago
    Smokers had no alternative as in no other place where to take their business. Smokers themselves were not banned from bars, just the act of smoking. People of Vienna who wanted to go shopping in their cars could have went shopping in some other shops accessible by car. There were no bars where the smokers could have went to smoke.
    - petre 6y ago
      Outside? It's weird, because I've been to a restaurant in Vienna and they had a three by two metre windowed and ventilated smoking compartment where smokers were enjoying their habit. In my country it's completeley banned in closed public spaces as it should be.
analog31 6y ago
The opposite happened in my locale. I'm a musician, so I welcomed not having to come home from a performance covered in smoke. The bottom dropped out of the bar business. Now this might be the difference -- my town is mid sized and a lot more sprawly. My hypothesis is that folks had for years settled into lifestyles that didn't involve going to bars, and moved into zones that had few or no bars. When the city banned smoking, folks didn't suddenly change their lifestyles. It's been something like a decade, and things have kind of gotten back to normal (present circumstances aside, of course). But it took a long time.
- hadlock 6y ago
  Online dating also started to take off about the same time that smoking in bars was banned. Between online video games and online dating, the options for "socializing" after work have increased substantially in the last 20 years.
collyw 6y ago
Sounds like the opposite effect that it had in the UK.
- yrro 6y ago
  I don't know how you can isolate the effect of the smoking ban from the other factors that have affected the rate of pubgoing.

pietrovismara 6y ago

Are you talking about Mariahilferstraße? If yes it's really good now, can't believe there was resistance to make it pedestrian-first. Hard to imagine how much less livable was the area with regular car traffic. One thing that puzzles me, living in Vienna as an expat, is how much the average Austrian cared about banning smoke in bars/restaurants/etc (which is fine, don't get me wrong) but how little they do about car smog.

bootloop 6y ago
Yes, I meant the Mahü. 1908 - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Mariahilferstrasse_1908_Stauda.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Mariahil... 2006 - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Mariahilferstrasse1.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Mariahil... Today - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Wien_07_Mariahilfer_Stra%C3%9Fe_Shopping_f.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Wien_07_... Smoking was definitely the much bigger problem. The average Austrian, if he doesn't life in Vienna, is simply not confronted with smog. I guess what helps tremendously to cover up the smog problem is they constant wind we have. Honestly I only realized that it could be a lot better after my London visit. Until then I only have seen cities which were much worse then Vienna w.r.t smog.
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  >The average Austrian, if he doesn't life in Vienna, is simply not confronted with smog. "coughs in Graz smog"